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Old 02-02-2014, 12:34 PM   #21
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Oh gosh, I feel like a relic with my one desktop PC that I "built" a few years ago. I own no other internet or wifi connected devices, other than an internet radio that operates from wifi. I don't even have a cellphone, smart or dumb.

The good part of it is that when I leave the house, I am gloriously unconnected. No-one can reach me. I rather like that, and feel even more free to watch life going on around me, greet passers-by, and not have to be concerned with Tweeting/Googling/Facebooking every other thought that comes into my head. In case that last sentence makes me sound rather smug, I do spend an inordinate amount of time online on the desktop when at home though. I'm certainly no saint

It's nice being away from it though.
Here I thought the path to sainthood was in recycling. But now there is a new path, renunciation of electronics in all shapes and sizes!!!

I don't know any saints like that and it's just too much for this guy. Perhaps someday one of those will arise among us. But how will we ever know as that person would be off line?
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:35 PM   #22
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Isn't any ecosystem a "jail" to some extent? Whether it's Windows, iOS-OS-X, Android-Google, even Kindle - you're making some commitment to following down one rabbit hole or another. Asking, not telling...and not arguing for any choice over another - we're straddling fences ourselves. Though we have a Win PC and laptop, IME Apple stuff may be more expensive and restrictive but it "just works" noticeably better (UI, better apps, fewer viruses, etc.). YMMV
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:36 PM   #23
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iTunes Jail? Amazon Kindle Jail? If these are jails, I like being incarcerated...
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:43 PM   #24
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But how will we ever know as that person would be off line?
If a tree falls in the forest, etc etc........
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:48 PM   #25
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I'm not totally educated on what constitutes an electronic "jail" but I'll offer this thought. When you need an app that takes your paid content and locks it up into a proprietary format, that feels like jail to me.

Example, it seems that Itunes creates "access routines" for content. That is, one no longer has an MP3 file that is open to use by various apps chosen by the buyer, but rather a song in a loaded database owned and controlled by Apple. Maybe I've got this wrong? Maybe there are ways around it or I've misunderstood the problem?
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:57 PM   #26
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I'm not totally educated on what constitutes an electronic "jail" but I'll offer this thought. When you need an app that takes your paid content and locks it up into a proprietary format, that feels like jail to me.

Example, it seems that Itunes creates "access routines" for content. That is, one no longer has an MP3 file that is open to use by various apps chosen by the buyer, but rather a song in a loaded database owned and controlled by Apple. Maybe I've got this wrong? Maybe there are ways around it or I've misunderstood the problem?
Actually Apple dropped music DRM back in 2009. If you don't like the format the music is delivered in from Apple, you can convert it to MP3 inside iTunes.

Movies are stilled DRMed, but it's not Apple (or Amazon's fault) it's the movie industry.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:14 PM   #27
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Actually Apple dropped music DRM back in 2009. If you don't like the format the music is delivered in from Apple, you can convert it to MP3 inside iTunes.

Movies are stilled DRMed, but it's not Apple (or Amazon's fault) it's the movie industry.
Does this mean that I can take an MP3 file out of iTunes? If so, then I guess it is not jail after all.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:23 PM   #28
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iOS and Mac OS are based on unix, BSD to be exact.

As for philosophy, the open source philosophy derives from people like Richard Stallman, who thinks that software should be free, that there should be no such thing as a commercial software business.

Only problem is that to attract the bright people it takes to write good software, the pay has to be attractive. People can write open source software for awhile but at some point they have to earn a living. A lot of OSS is written by people who are paid for programming but do some work on OSS in their spare time.

Oh and BTW, Google is a commercial enterprise, which wields control over Android, which they target as an advertising platform, since that is where they make their money.

So this talk about an open philosophy and "freedom" in the context of commercial products sold by companies which are as capitalistic and profits-driven as any other -- oil, chemicals, commercial agriculture, you name it -- is misguided and curious to say the least.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #29
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Does this mean that I can take an MP3 file out of iTunes? If so, then I guess it is not jail after all.
I'm not sure that I understand this question. I play iTunes MP3s from my Windows laptop through Sonos (controlled by my iPad!) all the time. Some of those files were purchased from Apple, but most were not. The iTunes software was a free download.

I was a Unix person too. I didn't see much use for an iPad until I actually got one.... Now it's pretty much the only thing I use. And use it I do -- for many hours per day.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:34 PM   #30
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Does this mean that I can take an MP3 file out of iTunes? If so, then I guess it is not jail after all.
The music files are just sitting in your hard disk. You can navigate using finder (equivalent of windows explorer) and just copy them. All of my music files are from my own CDs (apple lossless format -- no DRM).
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:35 PM   #31
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Does this mean that I can take an MP3 file out of iTunes? If so, then I guess it is not jail after all.
You can take an mp3 out of iTunes or put it in. You can make copies so it's in iTunes and in another part of your drive so that if you want to use a Sansa audio player, you can copy it there.

In fact there is utility software for copying unprotected iTunes content to Android and other non Apple devices. That is third party software.

You can also rip your own DVDs and load it in iTunes to sync to iPads so you don't have to buy movies and other video content from iTunes. It is more work and takes some time though.

I have about 80 gigs of music, videos and apps. in my iTunes library and I've spent maybe $20-30 in 10 years, consisting of a few apps that cost a few bucks each, an audio book which was $10-15. Never bought a song or video from iTunes and 95% of the apps were bought free, including things like 1Password which I got when they were running a free temporary promotion.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:36 PM   #32
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Does this mean that I can take an MP3 file out of iTunes? If so, then I guess it is not jail after all.
Sure you can. (I did this "just to make sure it works" before my posting)

Here's a good example of how to do this:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/23902309#23902309

Apple isn't really interested in trapping people in a jail, seriously it's not.

Apple will often use an open standard when it can (examples: USB, DisplayPort, WiFi, Bluetooth, iCal, pdf) but doesn't hesitate to create its own when an existing standard doesn't exist or when the existing standard leads to less than great user experiences (examples: MagSafe, Thunderbolt, AirPlay).

If you don't want to buy Apple products that's cool. But don't use the excuse that Apple's locking you in a jail. Apple's just trying to make its little world so comfortable that you'd rather not leave it.

I've been happy in that little world for about 30 years ;-)
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #33
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Thunderbolt is an Intel standard, just like USB.

Apple does try to give people incentives to buy more of their products, like you can use the same apps on iPhones and iPads, can use FaceTime and iMessage between them.

Also iOS devices and send content to Apple TV be Airplay to make it easy to put content on your big screen TV.

But they support Windows PCs since they are the dominant platform and most iOS device owners have Windows.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:02 PM   #34
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Thanks to all above who posted on iTunes and MP3 files. Helps to reduce my anti-Apple bias.

The high prices for Apple products are a problem for me. My son feels differently though and bought an Iphone recently. He used the reasoning "it just works" but I should mention that he's in advertising and has a much thinner dollar reserve then I do.

It's fun to go back and forth on this one. Beats politics. I don't want to offend anyone who likes Apple products as I can see the attraction. Recently when I was in an upscale shopping center, there were two electronics stores, Microsoft and Apple. You can guess which one had 10x the customer body count in those stores.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:05 PM   #35
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> It's fun to go back and forth on this one. Beats politics.

And it comes without the whiff of bacon!
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:16 PM   #36
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> It's fun to go back and forth on this one. Beats politics.

And it comes without the whiff of bacon!
OR, the forum police/gestapo

Back to the iPad. Is there and application out there some place that can edit Word, Excel, PPT etc? I did purchase a Keyboard so that part I am happy with.

Here is what would help me:

1) An App to do the above.
2) An App to copy to and from Windows and a I/F to do it. (USB Style?) Somebody mentioned Documents?
3) A File Manager for managing files like Unix/windows
4) A Print app that works in the background to print to regular IP Printers (I have no AirPrint Devices) but I do have a good laser color) I did download a print app that runs on it's own but it is cumbersome.

See! For all you skeptics out there, I am trying........ Seems a shame to sell it for so little, and it was Free.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #37
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The high prices for Apple products are a problem for me. My son feels differently though and bought an Iphone recently. He used the reasoning "it just works" but I should mention that he's in advertising and has a much thinner dollar reserve then I do.
Admittedly Apple doesn't offer low budget anything, but for comparable performance/features the Apple Mac/laptop premium seems to be noticeably smaller today than it used to be, but there is still a premium. And in the case of iPhone, Samsung seems to be charging as much for the latest Galaxy 4 as Apple does for the 5S.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:34 PM   #38
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Pages and Numbers are suppose to import and save in Word and Excel but I think the more complex documents with macros and some complicated formatting won't work.

There are rumors that MS is working on iOS and Android versions of Office but they're probably going to try to boost sales of Surface and Windows 8 tablets with Office first before releasing on iOS or Android.

2. I don't think there's a direct way to do it. You can use things like DropBox or you can use app-specific documents. For instance, there are a lot of apps which can view PDFs and you would either load those through iTunes or email PDFs to an email account that you can open on the iPad and then it will give you options to load the PDF to some other apps.

Specifically, you can open PDFs in iBooks this way. There are some paid apps. which let you edit and/or mark up PDFs.

But other types of formats, like Office, would depend on certain apps. Like I said, Pages can open Word docs and Numbers can open some Excel files. Keynote probably can open some PPT files.

Photo apps like iPhoto and Photoshop Touch can open JPG and RAW photo files. There are rumors Adobe is going to release LightRoom for iPad.

I believe there is a version of Turbotax for iPad but I don't know how they send files between the PC and iPad versions.

I think the latest Windows version of Quicken will let you open your Quicken data in a free iPad app. Again, not sure how they send data over. Probably you have to log in through your Intuit account. Or they may use iCloud.

Other file types, it depend on whether there are apps. available to open those file types. Either you load the files through iTunes or the app. developer will provide another way.

But you're not going to be able to mount the iPad on your PC and drag and drop files, unless maybe if you jailbreak.

3. I haven't tried these but these promise some kind of drag and drop functionality, for copying files over from your computer to the iPad:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/file...595075818?mt=8

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/file...294150896?mt=8

But for complete file system access, you probably need to jailbreak. Now even if you do get full file system access, if you transfer certain file types, you of course need an app that can open and process those file types.


4. I doubt any printing app. would work in the background. Not sure, because I haven't really used it. All the printer vendors (HP, Epson, etc.) offer apps. which support some of their printers.

Just Google your model and see if there's a way to print from iPads.

There are some third-party printing apps. which claim support for wide range of printers, such as:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/prin...299423224?mt=8

Obviously you have to have some kind of printer which is on the same network as your iPad will be, unless some apps. support USB printers which are connected to your router (if your router supports USB printing) or your computer.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:35 PM   #39
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Admittedly Apple doesn't offer low budget anything, but for comparable performance/features the Apple Mac/laptop premium seems to be noticeably smaller today than it used to be, but there is still a premium. And in the case of iPhone, Samsung seems to be charging as much for the latest Galaxy 4 as Apple does for the 5S.
They do tend to run more promotions though. YOu'll see sales where you can get it for $99 for a 2-year contract instead of the usual $199.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:51 PM   #40
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OR, the forum police/gestapo

Back to the iPad. Is there and application out there some place that can edit Word, Excel, PPT etc? I did purchase a Keyboard so that part I am happy with.

Here is what would help me:

1) An App to do the above.
2) An App to copy to and from Windows and a I/F to do it. (USB Style?) Somebody mentioned Documents?
3) A File Manager for managing files like Unix/windows
4) A Print app that works in the background to print to regular IP Printers (I have no AirPrint Devices) but I do have a good laser color) I did download a print app that runs on it's own but it is cumbersome.
(1) ...
There is "Office Mobile for Office 365 subscribers" from Microsoft, but that's currently just for iPhone.

Apple offers it's iWork suite of apps for both iPhone and iPad. Page's reads Word files, Numbers reads Excel files, Keynote reads PowerPoint files. Compatibility isn't bad, but not perfect and it's an import/export situation.

(2) ...
You can get documents in/out these apps using the browser version of iCloud.com (yes, these apps all exist as web apps too). Email is another option.

(3) ...
iOS doesn't expose the general file system. I don't expect it ever will. It's philosophy. Each app keeps its own apps in its own sandbox. There are solutions like Dropbox, but Apple doesn't support that from its own apps.

(4) ...
AirPrint is how apps print on iOS. There is no real general work around, as you saw, there are some specific apps that print pdfs and such, but they are not a general solution.

Most new printers support AirPrint. My Dad bought this $100 laser printer from Amazon last month
that supports AirPrint, duplex printing, and WiFi networking. Very nice printer. Not the answer you want, but AirPrint removes the need for iOS printer drivers, so it's an example of Apple going with something new to give a very good user experience.
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