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New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 05:01 PM   #1
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New Job?

I just got my usual Head Hunter call of the week today.* It seems these guys have my resume from a couple of years ago and keep dredging it up for cold calls either looking to fill a position or knowing if I can suggest an other sucker some one else who might be looking for a new career path.

Well this one was different.* It was targeted to me and my backround and my desire to not have to move again.* The job is local, it is with a better company that has better fringes and a pension plan I could vest in within 5 years.* It* would also give me a chance to better use my experience and backround.*

The bad part is that it would be a lot more work, more travel, and more headaches.* The not so bad part is that it would be about 30% more $$, stock options, signon bonus, nice 401k match (3%), pension, full medical and a lot of other bells and whistles.

The really ugly part is that it would mean getting up to my armpits in Mega. Corp. management and living and breathing the thin and polluted air of a Sr. Dir. or VP level position in a multi-national company business unit.* 10 years ago I would have jumped at the chance.....now I the thought sort of makes me sick.* *:P

DW just says do what I want to do.* I know that she has 2 years left in harnes before she wants to quit.* I was planning on working at my current (boring) job with a mediocre company for those same two years.* Now the part of me that I thought was dead and gone is starting to nag at me about going after this job if even for the short term.* Stay two years and see how it goes.* Let DW retire and work another couple of months to see how she adjusts to it.* If all is well, then bail without staying long enough to get some of the juicy options and pension.* Or stay the 5 years and collect the Brass Ring.* The smart guy in me says don't do it; ER in two years and never look back.* The ambitious jerk in me says go for it and close our your 30+ year career in a fireball.*

On the other hand I could croak in 5 years and would not have had time to enjoy being ERd.* *

The analysis continues.........
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 05:07 PM   #2
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Re: New Job?

If you take the new job, you'll be posting the same question in another 4-5 years after the next head hunter calls you, and you'll be 4-5 years older, and much richer. Your call! Do you know when you'll have all the money you'll ever need?

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Re: New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 05:23 PM   #3
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
If you take the new job, you'll be posting the same question in another 4-5 years after the next head hunter calls you, and you'll be 4-5 years older, and much richer.* Your call!* Do you know when you'll have all the money you'll ever need?
As a former career promotion junkie I know what I would be getting myself into. I got off the corp. ladder a while back for some very good reasons. The evil ambitious person inside me wants the job not so much for the $$ but because it would be the final feather in my career cap. I would not want to go any higher and the odds would be against that since it would require a move back East, which I will not do. That is set in stone so, no there would be no additional job beyond this one.

As for how much is enough....we are nearly there with some minor living adjustments.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 06:48 PM   #4
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Re: New Job?

Would you have fun in this job? I mean, would you enjoy the work, not just the status? Is there things in retirement the extra $$ would allow you to do? 5 years vs. 2 years sounds like a reasonable consideration if you get a lot for it. But if you won't like the job, no amount of money would make up for 3 years lost retirement time.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 07:03 PM   #5
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
The job is local, it is with a better company that has better fringes and a pension plan I could vest in within 5 years.* It* would also give me a chance to better use my experience and backround.*
The bad part is that it would be a lot more work, more travel, and more headaches.* The not so bad part is that it would be about 30% more $$, stock options, signon bonus, nice 401k match (3%), pension, full medical and a lot of other bells and whistles.
Re-read that job description again. Gosh, it sure makes me want to sign up. Is that a Freudian slip, or is there really an upside to the job besides the money?

Using your experience & background doesn't matter much in the final two years before you ER, does it? Do you want a really big brass ring on your ILOVEME wall engraved with the words "Used his experience & background!"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
10 years ago I would have jumped at the chance.....now I the thought sort of makes me sick. :P
The ambitious jerk in me says go for it and close our your 30+ year career in a fireball.
On the other hand I could croak in 5 years and would not have had time to enjoy being ERd.
You could also close out your career in a cardiac ICU. These sentences make me wonder if your body is trying to tell you something that your mind isn't hearing yet.

Years ago, when I was an O-4 struggling to make O-5, I was expected to jump if the assignment officer called. He never called me but he called a shipmate in the same position as me, and offered him the job of XO on a decommissioning submarine. Since that would be the only chance he'd ever again have to be an XO, and his only hope of ever being promoted to O-5, he took the job-- even though it meant spending two years drydocked in Kittery, ME during winter unloading nuclear fuel while the rest of the ship was ripped to shreds. Real cheerful environment.

At the end of that tour, still a year away from the O-5 promotion board, the assignment officer suggested that he go across the street and take over XO of the submarine in the other drydock. They'd been having trouble finding a relief for that guy and my shipmate would look like a real sucker hero for having decommissioned not one but TWO submarines.

The O-5 board met and passed him over. The following year they blew him off again. He retired as an O-4 and, last I heard, was building transmissions for Ford near Detroit. (He must have adapted to that weather.)

While he was spending all that time in Kittery, I was working in a training command in Pearl Harbor. Same uniforms, same paychecks, wildly different quality of life, same promotion results, same pension. I'm glad I never got the call-- I'm not sure I would've had the spinal integrity to say "No, thanks anyway."

You only have two years left, man. Perhaps it's better to focus on getting ready for the time AFTER that two years than to try to set yourself on fire.

Of course you could always take that headhunter's offer to renegotiate your current salary & benefits. No one would be surprised when you packed it in a couple years later...
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-13-2005, 09:58 PM   #6
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
I just got ...Head Hunter call of the week today.
Me too, today.* Told them I won't move, but if their client is interested to give me a jingle.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 08:34 AM   #7
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
While he was spending all that time in Kittery, I was working in a training command in Pearl Harbor.* Same uniforms, same paychecks, wildly different quality of life, same promotion results, same pension.* I'm glad I never got the call-- I'm not sure I would've had the spinal integrity to say "No, thanks anyway."
I was stationed at Pease AFB, NH during late 70s, just across the bridge from Kittery in Maine.* There is a big difference in lifestyle between Kittery and Pearl Harbor.* Winter is brutal (to me, anyway), although the area is beautiful.* I guess the difference between O-4 and O-5 status, pay and pension would be worth it, but just barely.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 09:26 AM   #8
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Re-read that job description again.* Gosh, it sure makes me want to sign up.* Is that a Freudian slip, or is there really an upside to the job besides the money?*
Nords, I do appreciate your comments and enjoy reading your ideas on many things. *But in this case I think some clarification is needed.

Yes, there is an upside besides the money. *One of the reasons I went into Quality Assurance was to be in a position to make a difference in providing only the highest quality medical products to the market. *I have done that and not without losing a job here and there because of my strong stand on the issue. *The money is good but that I could make more on the "other" side of the equation. *My motivation was to be in an industry that makes products that save lives or improve health. *

Your career was in the military where you are expected to take lives and be prepared to do so at a moments notice. *That is a very different perspective than mine and I believe is part of the differences we see in "work". *I still feel an obligation to share what I have learned during my career. *I considered consulting but it involves being away from home too much so my next best thing is to find a job locally that would allow me to do this. *I may get a shot at it or not. *I would perfer to end my career on a high note for my own personal gratification and to put closure on my personal goals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Using your experience & background doesn't matter much in the final two years before you ER, does it?* Do you want a really big brass ring on your ILOVEME wall engraved with the words "Used his experience & background!"?
You could also close out your career in a cardiac ICU.* These sentences make me wonder if your body is trying to tell you something that your mind isn't hearing yet.
I don't give a s@it about having engraved wall plaques and I have no I Love Me wall. *That is not what I am about. *The comment about using my experience and knowledge in this job is important to me not as a some engraving on a B@ll S@it plaque on the wall but in terms of what I want to do in my last job before ER. *The reason it matters to me is a personal one and one I doubt you would understand given your post.

As for the cardiac ICU comment. *
I no idea what you are referring to. *My comment about croaking in the next 5 years applies to everybody since no on knows when the grim reaper will come for them. *I am in good health but like any one, including you, could get hit by a car, struck by lightning, or yes, have a heart attack at any time. *I don't live my life around that kind of thinking other than understand what that all really means. *I have had three close friends all die within a year of their retirement. *I have yet to know anyone that actually died at work. *That said, I am planning on ER but on my own terms. *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords

<snipped >
While he was spending all that time in Kittery, I was working in a training command in Pearl Harbor.* Same uniforms, same paychecks, wildly different quality of life, same promotion results, same pension.* I'm glad I never got the call-- I'm not sure I would've had the spinal integrity to say "No, thanks anyway."
I guess I have a hard time believing this one. *Your post would seem to contradict this comment about not wanting to climb up the promotion ladder and I doubt anybody would think of you as not having "spinal integrity." *Anyway, promotions are desired for many reasons. *I have turned down three with my current company in the past 3 years. *Why? The timing was wrong on the first one. *Two months after my wife died suddenly, they asked me to take on the additional responsibilities of a recently fired manager. *Then shortly after, my boss left the company and I was again asked to take on more responsibilites and I did. *So for over 8 months I was doing the work of three high level managers and was running the department until they could find replacements. *I was not compensated for this and I had some significant "issues" with management during that time. *I chose the high ground on these promotions and do not regret it for a second. * Now I am bored and I see the company is heading in the wrong direction. *Management is clueless and I am would prefer to be on a new aircraft carrier than a slowly sinking and obsolete freighter going into the last battle of the war. *


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
You only have two years left, man.* Perhaps it's better to focus on getting ready for the time AFTER that two years than to try to set yourself on fire.
Setting myself "on fire" is what I am trying to do, FIRE that is. * I have not been as successful as many here seem to be with investing. *I have a decent networth but my FI is important to me and I am not yet. *Sure, I could live OK on what I have but it would not be at the level I want for the first several years. *I can slow down later but the first several years are going to be expensive and I need to fund that kind of life style. *


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Of course you could always take that headhunter's offer to renegotiate your current salary & benefits.* No one would be surprised when you packed it in a couple years later...
Negotiations are not done here. *Your salary and other benefits are limited to what every one else gets; there are no negotiations once you are hired. *Besides, I don't see this place being successful in the next few years and I would like to finish out my career doing a job that makes a difference and with a company that will survive and wants my contributions. *

Thanks for the comments. I do appreciate an open discussion of topics. *I will see where this leads and if it goes no where, then so be it. *My path is already set and if I can divert to a new one for a short time that will enhance my RE then I would be foolish to not do so.

I will keep you posted. *
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 09:29 AM   #9
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
Me too, today.* Told them I won't move, but if their client is interested to give me a jingle.
Brat,
I get calls at least once a week and I refuse to move out of this area. I took this job 3 years ago to get to this area since we will retire here. I have turned down many very good job chances because I did not want to move.

But, getting a chance for a very nice bump in my income and a chance to finish out my career on my terms is a very tempting option.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 09:56 AM   #10
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Re: New Job?

Steve,

I say go for it.* Finishing on a high note with more $$$ in the bank seems to be what you want.* Yes, it's going to be more work, etc... but isn't that what you really want as being indicative of a "high note"?

Remember, you can always quit in 2 years if you change your mind.* You may not have all of your options, but you will still pocket the signing bonus, 30% more in savings over your old job (provided you pocket the difference), the 401(k) match (or some of it if there's a vesting period), and whatever other bells and whistles that might continue past your termination date.* In the end, you'll still be ahead of the game and be able to walk out of the working world with your head held high.
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 10:10 AM   #11
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Re: New Job?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
Steve,

I say go for it.* Finishing on a high note with more $$$ in the bank seems to be what you want.* Yes, it's going to be more work, etc... but isn't that what you really want as being indicative of a "high note"?

Remember, you can always quit in 2 years if you change your mind.* You may not have all of your options, but you will still pocket the signing bonus, 30% more in savings over your old job (provided you pocket the difference), the 401(k) match (or some of it if there's a vesting period), and whatever other bells and whistles that might continue past your termination date.* In the end, you'll still be ahead of the game and be able to walk out of the working world with your head held high.
Jay, thanks for the response. I see you understand where I am coming from on this. My DW and I discussed this last night and we both came to the same conclusion that since I am planning on working for 2 more years anyway, why not take a shot at this job for all the reasons noted. My current position is very boring and I am having a hard time seeing myself doing this for the next two years. Time passes much faster when you are busy and engaged in the working environment.

The money and other benefits would be a very nice addition to the money pile for FI and ER but we could get there without it. So the job is not a Need as much as Want for the very personal reason of wanting to leave on my own terms and not slink away when my time is up.

If this does not work out it will not be a major issue but it most likely would be my last chance since these jobs are few and far between here.

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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 10:38 AM   #12
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Re: New Job?

A job can be like a marriage. The first year you are really getting to know each other, the second year important work gets done, the third year both are wondering if it can be better...
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 11:09 AM   #13
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
So the job is not a Need as much as*a want for the very personal reason of wanting to leave on my own terms and not slink away when my time is up.*

If this does not work out it will not be a major issue but it most likely would be my last chance since these jobs are few and far between here.*
You're quite welcome. Taking the job is a no-lose proposition, since you're going to be working anyway. The only downside is the additional time/travel commitment, which is more than offset by the benefits you articulated -- the biggest of which is leaving on your own terms. Although you won't likely care what people might think of you after you've retired from MegaCorp (i.e. they'd be impressed that you worked there), you will still care in knowing that you could still "hack it" at the highest level until your very last day in the working world.

Whether you win or lose, you at least had the guts to step up and take a shot -- a shot you didn't even ask for, but was dropped in your lap. Perhaps it's fate?
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 11:18 AM   #14
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR


Yes, there is an upside besides the money. One of the reasons I went into Quality Assurance was to be in a position to make a difference in providing only the highest quality medical products to the market. I have done that and not without losing a job here and there because of my strong stand on the issue. The money is good but that I could make more on the "other" side of the equation. My motivation was to be in an industry that makes products that save lives or improve health.
I am with Jay. Go for it. You have two years left--why be bored. Besides, what you do may be to the benefit of all of us. Good luck!
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 11:39 AM   #15
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Re: New Job?

Steve, based on what you have said, I would go for it with one proviso: make sure that if you need to bail on the new position you have an "emergency exit plan" mapped out. Other than that, I don't see anything wrong withh going for the gusto,
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 03:05 PM   #16
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Re: New Job?

Thanks for the reply, Steve. This is a good thread, and my apologies if I've caused any offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
Yes, there is an upside besides the money. *One of the reasons I went into Quality Assurance was to be in a position to make a difference in providing only the highest quality medical products to the market. *I have done that and not without losing a job here and there because of my strong stand on the issue. *The money is good but that I could make more on the "other" side of the equation. *My motivation was to be in an industry that makes products that save lives or improve health. *
Your career was in the military where you are expected to take lives and be prepared to do so at a moments notice. *That is a very different perspective than mine and I believe is part of the differences we see in "work". *I still feel an obligation to share what I have learned during my career. *I considered consulting but it involves being away from home too much so my next best thing is to find a job locally that would allow me to do this. *I may get a shot at it or not. *I would perfer to end my career on a high note for my own personal gratification and to put closure on my personal goals.
I don't give a s@it about having engraved wall plaques and I have no I Love Me wall. *That is not what I am about. *The comment about using my experience and knowledge in this job is important to me not as a some engraving on a B@ll S@it plaque on the wall but in terms of what I want to do in my last job before ER. *The reason it matters to me is a personal one and one I doubt you would understand given your post.
Actually I do get it, but I've had way too much forced cohabitation with guys (usually guys, but women aren't immune) whose egos depended on "making a difference" and "passing on valuable skills" when what they really wanted was perpetual genuflection. You don't seem to be afflicted with that disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
As for the cardiac ICU comment.
I no idea what you are referring to. My comment about croaking in the next 5 years applies to everybody since no on knows when the grim reaper will come for them. I am in good health but like any one, including you, could get hit by a car, struck by lightning, or yes, have a heart attack at any time. I don't live my life around that kind of thinking other than understand what that all really means. I have had three close friends all die within a year of their retirement. I have yet to know anyone that actually died at work. That said, I am planning on ER but on my own terms.
Again you're unlikely to stress over the difference between what you think you're achieving and what's actually happening. It looks like you'll actually be motivated by the idea of making a difference instead of by the fantasy of perpetuating your ego reputation for posterity. And again I've seen far too much of the latter by people concerned that their careers were almost over and they didn't have any lasting monuments to show for it. When one gets in a situation like that for the wrong reasons, the cardiac stress can be unbelievable, and I've seen three guys almost die from it. I had one CO who suffered from rheumatoid arthritis and actually had both hip implants removed for six months while the doctors lectured him to take it easy and get healthy before they'd replace them, but he couldn't imagine that we could get along for even a day without his guidance & supervision. And no one should have "myocardial infarction" in their daily vocabulary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
I guess I have a hard time believing this one. Your post would seem to contradict this comment about not wanting to climb up the promotion ladder and I doubt anybody would think of you as not having "spinal integrity." Anyway, promotions are desired for many reasons. I have turned down three with my current company in the past 3 years. Why? The timing was wrong on the first one. Two months after my wife died suddenly, they asked me to take on the additional responsibilities of a recently fired manager. Then shortly after, my boss left the company and I was again asked to take on more responsibilites and I did. So for over 8 months I was doing the work of three high level managers and was running the department until they could find replacements. I was not compensated for this and I had some significant "issues" with management during that time. I chose the high ground on these promotions and do not regret it for a second. Now I am bored and I see the company is heading in the wrong direction. Management is clueless and I am would prefer to be on a new aircraft carrier than a slowly sinking and obsolete freighter going into the last battle of the war.
Yeah, well, I see a lot more clearly now, but ten years ago I was firmly in the "Have military ID card, will travel" category. Luckily one of my bosses actually deviated from the party line long enough to explain to me that family was more important than sacrificing for a career purported to be providing for your family. That really helped me get off the promotion kool-aid, and watching my shipmate get screwed after not just one but two decoms completed the detoxification process. We joke that he got the call first because the assignment officer was going alphabetically, and I was never sure that I wouldn't have opened wide and drank a deep draught. But it doesn't appear that you've been drinking anything either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
Setting myself "on fire" is what I am trying to do, FIRE that is. I have not been as successful as many here seem to be with investing. I have a decent networth but my FI is important to me and I am not yet. Sure, I could live OK on what I have but it would not be at the level I want for the first several years. I can slow down later but the first several years are going to be expensive and I need to fund that kind of life style.

Negotiations are not done here. Your salary and other benefits are limited to what every one else gets; there are no negotiations once you are hired. Besides, I don't see this place being successful in the next few years and I would like to finish out my career doing a job that makes a difference and with a company that will survive and wants my contributions.

Thanks for the comments. I do appreciate an open discussion of topics. I will see where this leads and if it goes no where, then so be it. My path is already set and if I can divert to a new one for a short time that will enhance my RE then I would be foolish to not do so.
Ah well, others on this board have been manipulating their companies using headhunters to negotiate better salaries at their current jobs and I thought that was the standard. But it sounds like you have almost as much motivation to leave the current company as you do to seek a more fulfilling job.

Thanks for keeping us posted. It'll be interesting to see how this works out!
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Re: New Job?
Old 12-14-2005, 03:19 PM   #17
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Re: New Job?

Quote:
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Thanks for the reply, Steve.* This is a good thread, and my apologies if I've caused any offense.
None taken.

Thanks for the explanation, it puts your comments in context for me too.
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