Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
New Mazda engine for 2019
Old 09-20-2017, 09:13 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,828
New Mazda engine for 2019

Mazda's new HCCI engine: Here's how it works

It is called an HCCI engine. Essentially it is a gas engine that runs like a diesel no spark plug required, except, it has one. According to what I have read the plug is active when additional power is needed like passing. The trick seems to be when to switch between HCCI and plug. Video does a good job of explaining how one person thinks it works.

Major advantage is 20-30% more fuel efficient. Nothing mentioned about pollution.
__________________

__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
Rustic23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-20-2017, 09:27 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,673
I started a thread on this a few weeks ago.

Internal Combustion Engine has a future?

Check the "Engineering Explained" link in that post. And yes, pollution is much lower. When in HCCI mode, they run very lean ( a spark plug needs enough fuel around it to ignite, and carry that flame front across the cylinder), so very low un-burned fuel. And because it all ignites at once, you don't have hot spots, so lower NOX (NOX is typically higher with lean mixtures in a traditional ICE).

edit/add: Oh, OK, I see you posted a link to the same video I did. I'm pretty sure he talks about lower pollution in that video.

The spark plug is used anytime that HCCI cannot be maintained. Cold starts would be one, and probably low power modes, maybe high power too, not sure about that. But coupled with a small battery pack, the battery and an electric motor could provide power for those times, and keep it in the 'sweet spot' more often, and provide regen braking.

-ERD50
__________________

ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 10:08 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,211
And here I thought sparkless engine run-on common during the '80s was a bug rather than a feature. But seriously, this does sound like an interesting approach to additional fuel economy.
GrayHare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 12:23 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1,526
iMOH, it's a step backwards for Mazda.

Previously they offered high-compression direct-injection gasoline engines allowing better fuel milage w/o adding a turbocharger.

This new engine not only has the complexity of HCCI but also adds a supercharger.

Despite their claims, IIRC early road tests show only about a 15% improvement in fuel economy.

At the expense of decreased reliability from the additional complexity of HCCI plus a supercharger...
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 12:36 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 900
It's cool and all but I often wonder if things are becoming more complex for the sake of 'technology/because-we-can' because even 15yrs ago the cars could go down the same road, at same legal speeds, with decent efficiency and pollution control.

As a DIYer Direct injection (GDI) sucks, ever try to troubleshoot the dang things? Ooops my fuel pressure gauges only read 75psi, not 2000psi. Not to mention there are no test ports (for that reason) so spend $1500+ on the diagnostic tools that read the data from the sensors (I own them but the avg joe doesn't). Then let's not forget the cost of these high pressure pumps.

Now HCCI...15% more fuel efficient (perhaps *under the perfect conditions*)?
dvalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 01:31 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
Blueskies123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Miami
Posts: 272
I will look closer after 5 years of proven reliability. Complexity can easily kill the savings.
__________________
FIRE July 2015
Blueskies123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
iMOH, it's a step backwards for Mazda.

Previously they offered high-compression direct-injection gasoline engines allowing better fuel milage w/o adding a turbocharger.

This new engine not only has the complexity of HCCI but also adds a supercharger.

Despite their claims, IIRC early road tests show only about a 15% improvement in fuel economy.

At the expense of decreased reliability from the additional complexity of HCCI plus a supercharger...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvalley View Post
It's cool and all but I often wonder if things are becoming more complex for the sake of 'technology/because-we-can' because even 15yrs ago the cars could go down the same road, at same legal speeds, with decent efficiency and pollution control.

As a DIYer Direct injection (GDI) sucks, ever try to troubleshoot the dang things? Ooops my fuel pressure gauges only read 75psi, not 2000psi. Not to mention there are no test ports (for that reason) so spend $1500+ on the diagnostic tools that read the data from the sensors (I own them but the avg joe doesn't). Then let's not forget the cost of these high pressure pumps.

Now HCCI...15% more fuel efficient (perhaps *under the perfect conditions*)?
Well, we will see.

Direct Injection still doesn't allow for the very lean mixtures you can run with HCCI.

Pollution limits and CAFE mpg standards are tightening from 15 years ago. Need to do something if people still want some performance.

The "complexity" of HCCI? It seems like the control systems and engineering are complex, but I don't see any additional components (variable valve timing is already pretty common). Supercharging is on lots of cars, mostly of the turbocharger variety - not sure if he means mechanically driven here, does it make a difference to reliability?

But I would wait for reviews and some experience to come in, I'm not an early adopter for these things.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Florence, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 3,681
I got a new 2018 Camry hybrid that is a 100% new car--including the engine and electric motor. It runs great and is getting 52.5 mpg in the city.

It's the future of automobiles.
Bamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 02:02 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 9,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
I got a new 2018 Camry hybrid that is a 100% new car--including the engine and electric motor. It runs great and is getting 52.5 mpg in the city.

It's the future of automobiles.
Very impressive. That's a good 30% improvement over the previous engine/drive-train combo.

My older design constantly gets better mileage than the much smaller Fiat 500 one of my neighbors has. He brags about it getting 32mpg. If my Camry only got 32mpg I would bring it into the shop to have them see what is wrong with it.

A 30% mileage increase, nothing to sneeze at. Just curious.... how far can you drive it using only the batteries?
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 02:02 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
I got a new 2018 Camry hybrid that is a 100% new car--including the engine and electric motor. It runs great and is getting 52.5 mpg in the city.

It's the future of automobiles.
Yes, I think this HCCI engine could be a part of that future (that was the point of my earlier thread ( Internal Combustion Engine has a future? ). This HCCI engine matched up with an electric motor as a hybrid, should help keep the engine functioning in it's 'sweet spot' of HCCI efficiency more of the time.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 02:41 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Florence, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 3,681
I had no idea how far the Camry hybrid will go only on the battery. Mine has the new style lithium battery that is far stronger than the old style battery still being used in some models. The gas engine kicks in some, but it most often is running on battery even at highway speeds.

When you punch it, I am surprised how quick the car is. 0-60 mph in the mid 7's.

I was talking to my nephew that is GM of a large Lexus dealership. He said hybrid owners are a different breed. Once they buy the cars, they seldom see them again. They run the wheels off the car and then turn them over to their kids. And they buy a new hybrid.

With gas prices so low, payack is going to be many years. It is so quiet and smooth and a quite pleasurable ride for $26k.
Bamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 03:50 PM   #12
Moderator
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Pollution limits and CAFE mpg standards are tightening from 15 years ago. Need to do something if people still want some performance.
Right. The CAFE standards put a whole 'nuther player in the game. It's not just the consumer deciding whether the increased complexity and initial cost will be worth the payback in gas mileage. The government has stepped in and put a thumb on the scale, so now the car makers are incentivized to produce cars that get better mileage no matter what it costs the buyers in terms of higher maintenance or decreased safety. "Gotta get that extra .03 MPG or we'll get dinged by Uncle Sam. Let's go with slightly thinner sheet metal and skip that second dunk in the zinc tank. And ditch the spare tire and jack, put a can of Fix-a-Flat in the trunk instead. There--we saved 150 lbs and avoid the CAFE penalty. Sure, the car will rust out 5 years sooner and result in higher net energy use (to build that replacement car sooner), but we responded to the given incentives."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
Despite their claims, IIRC early road tests show only about a 15% improvement in fuel economy.
These engineers would sell an appendage for 2 more MPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
At the expense of decreased reliability from the additional complexity of HCCI plus a supercharger...
See above. They are just responding to incentives. Does anybody think that the 0W10 weight sewing machine oil presently recommended for new cars is really the best thing for reducing bearing and ring wear in engines, esp in hot weather/severe driving? I don't, but this thin oil pumps easier and therefore improves gas mileage. Sure, the bearing rollers might now touch the bearing races occasionally through that wispy film,, but the car will still run long enough to get out of warranty.
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 04:10 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
I had no idea how far the Camry hybrid will go only on the battery. Mine has the new style lithium battery that is far stronger than the old style battery still being used in some models. The gas engine kicks in some, but it most often is running on battery even at highway speeds. ...
Are you sure about that? I'm having trouble finding info, but this is not a plug-in hybrid, it has a small battery pack - 1.0 kWh?

I found one youtube review that said he could gingerly accelerate to 25 mph before the engine kicked in. Oddly, even all the 'green' sites have very little info on the EV-only mode on this car.

But if that 1 kWh is right, that's about 1 HP for an hour. You need ~ 20 HP for highway speeds, so ~ 3 minutes of EV-mode driving (assuming the 1.0 kWh is the usable energy). but I doubt they want to continuously run it down for 2-3 minutes, and then charge it back up on the highway, over and over again. That would put a lot of cycles on the battery, and just waste gas not only in the conversion of mechanical to electrical, but the battery charge/discharge round trip losses.

Something tells me it just isn't running EV mode at highway speeds - or those specs are way, way off. Do you have some better sources of info?

-ERD50
__________________

ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Class of 2019 Gunny Life after FIRE 341 10-13-2019 09:43 AM
Total Eclipse Chile/Argentina in 2019 jetpack Travel Information 13 08-26-2017 08:00 PM
FIRE 2016 - 2019 maybe. Pecan518 Hi, I am... 3 08-02-2015 11:16 PM
2019 is the Goal Snoopy Hi, I am... 5 06-14-2012 07:31 PM
Military family looking to FIRE in Hawaii by 2019 PrayforSurf Hi, I am... 9 02-11-2012 12:32 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:33 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×