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Old 02-20-2014, 04:24 PM   #21
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Indeed!

Note to self: Never buy a house with a tile roof.
Not bad advice, I've already given it to my kids.

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But how can you leave the land of stinky onions behind?
That's a while different story for another thread. Not sure about the "when", pretty darn sure about the "will".
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:39 PM   #22
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One important question is how legitimate is the warranty for a family run business when the owner is also the sole proprietor. A 10 year warranty needs him to be around, solvent and still working, or the business needs some type of succession where someone else assumes those liabilities.
You probably know this so FWiW...

Having been in a related industry for many years, most roofing warranties are notoriously bad. The warranty is usually provided by the roofing material manufacturer, not the contractor. If there is an early failure, the warranty will probably be of value, otherwise the prorating schedule will be so front end loaded that halfway through the published period (ie, 30 years), you'll get paid peanuts if anything. And the manufacturer will claim it was the contractors fault, and vice versa. If you get 2/3rds the stated life for most roofing materials, you've probably done well. Sorry...but well documented if you want to search for horror stories.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:44 PM   #23
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I thought that these tile roofs lasted a long time... you are getting asphalt lifespan from what I can tell...


Decided to look it up...
Concrete tile roofing has a somewhat shorter life span than clay roofing tile, an average of 30 years versus 50 to 60 years respectively. Clay tile roofing is more durable once installed, and some types of clay tile have lasted up to a century. Clay tiles are heavier than concrete, and they tend to place more stress on the underlying roof structure. This can lead to the need for repairs, so it is a factor to keep in mind when selecting clay tiles over concrete ones. Clay tiles are also more resistant to moisture from weather conditions since they are less porous than concrete.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:07 PM   #24
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The current tile on the roof is fine. It's the wood underneath that's not.

Clay is more durable, doesn't fade or get so dirty, aesthetically more pleasing, better from every point of view. Also more expensive. Not sure why the HOA doesn't allow it. In general, concrete tiles will have a 50 year life span vs 100 for clay. They will outlast the wood beneath them, the real risk is wind and people walking on the roof.

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You probably know this so FWiW...

Having been in a related industry for many years, most roofing warranties are notoriously bad. The warranty is usually provided by the roofing material manufacturer, not the contractor. If there is an early failure, the warranty will probably be of value, otherwise the prorating schedule will be so front end loaded that halfway through the published period (ie, 30 years), you'll get paid peanuts if anything. And the manufacturer will claim it was the contractors fault, and vice versa. If you get 2/3rds the stated life for most roofing materials, you've probably done well. Sorry...but well documented if you want to search for horror stories.
Got it. Tiles don't break by themselves, warranties don't cover wind damage or roof cleaners pressure cleaning.

The warranty value is in the under-roof wood damage, because repair is expensive. They are not only warrantying the wood they put in, they are also warrantying the wood already there that they leave in as good, so they should cover any leak over the warranty period. If they're around, that is.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:29 PM   #25
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I think you said this roof was 22 years old and it's been leaking in different spots for the past 5. I thought a tile roof lasted much longer than 17 years. So how many times in your life time will you have to repair/replace the roof?
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:52 PM   #26
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Got it. Tiles don't break by themselves, warranties don't cover wind damage or roof cleaners pressure cleaning.

The warranty value is in the under-roof wood damage, because repair is expensive. They are not only warrantying the wood they put in, they are also warrantying the wood already there that they leave in as good, so they should cover any leak over the warranty period. If they're around, that is.
Got it. My post wasn't that useful now that I see where you're coming from...best of luck whatever you decide.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:01 PM   #27
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We purchased a 17 year old house with concrete tiles that were broken and leaking in certain spots. Hired a guy who knew what he was doing to inspect and repair.
He replaced all the broken tiles, redid all the flashing around chimney, skylights, vents, eves, etc. cost was less than $1,500. Has lasted over 10 years without any problems and is estimated to last at least another 20. Tiles are faded a bit but otherwise just fine.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:17 PM   #28
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Ours has concrete tiles and while they are not leaking, they need cleaning (moss and stuff). I just know when the pressure washer guy gets up there 30 tiles are going to be broken.

Need one of those Tom Cruise cable harness things like in MI.

We are selling the house in 1 year, so if it needs a new roof (is about 28 years old) that will be the new owner buying it. No way am I paying $40,000 + $4,000 sales tax to gain an extra $30,000 on the sales price which I have to pay $3000 in commission and excise tax.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:27 PM   #29
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The key to not cracking the tiles is to walk on the rounded part (high part of tile) not the valleys. This is what the tile guy who knew what he was doing told me.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:31 PM   #30
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Yes, I have those same concrete roof tiles. It was poor workmanship that caused the leaks at the valleys and along edges of walls. Good thing that we had no HOA that mandated new tiles to be put in. So, the roofers took the tiles off the section that leaked, fixed the leaks, then put the tiles back.

It also helps that it does not rain heavily where we are, if it even rains.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:41 AM   #31
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An update. I called a new roof repair business, they sent someone over late yesterday afternoon, he spent a fair amount of time crawling around the attic on one side of the house, then on the roof, and took lots of photos. The leak is not one, it's three. They've been around for awhile, because there's a good amount of fungus on the wood. The gutters will probably be a continuing source of fascia degradation, which is a major issue for DW. The advice given yesterday by the repair person is, unsurprisingly, to repair, at least for another 5 or so years. The 30 years I want out of a new roof is the upper limit, it is safer to spend a bit more now, extend the current roof a bit longer, to reduce that need for new roof life to just 25. This is like the "OMY to work for ER" discussion.

Despite his logic, the odds are now leaning toward the new new roof option. He didn't go into the attic on the other side, there could be more wood rot issues there. The gutters / fascia issue increase the likelihood of continuing expense and not one last repair.

I have concerns about warranty. Both are successful companies, proprietor owned and operated. That means a 10 year warranty needs the owner around for those 10 years. Worry and expense free for a decade is an important part of the decision. So is not having to go through this once more when we are older.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:35 AM   #32
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We are having to bite the bullet for a new roof that we were not planning on for another 10 years. We don't have tile and our roof is a simple pitch with gable ends and a couple of added on shed roofs with maybe 2000 sq ft total. We have to have part of the decking replaced (leaks) and then have a high quality standing seam metal roof installed to the tune of $20k. This was double what a asphalt shingle roof would cost but I wanted something that would not leak for at least the next 30 years. I probably not be around after that and I never want to pay for another roof again.

In the mid 50's (when I was little) we lived on Okinawa and I recall the clay tile roofs on base were constantly under repair to replace broken tile but usually not a complete replacement. I would think concrete tiles would be more durable. Did any of the roofers suggest just replacing the rotted wood and broken tiles or was the damage too extensive? I would also ask about the use of those sticky rolls of underlayment that is waterproof and self healing to go over the decking before the tiles are installed as a second line of defense.

Cheers!
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:05 AM   #33
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We purchased a 17 year old house with concrete tiles that were broken and leaking in certain spots. Hired a guy who knew what he was doing to inspect and repair.
He replaced all the broken tiles, redid all the flashing around chimney, skylights, vents, eves, etc. cost was less than $1,500. Has lasted over 10 years without any problems and is estimated to last at least another 20. Tiles are faded a bit but otherwise just fine.
I'm in this camp. I've not owned a tile roof, but have installed my own shingle roofing and done a fair amount of maintenance on shingle roofs. Unless a shingle (or tile) is missing or damaged, it is almost never the cause of a leak. Leaks occur at junctions, normally sealed by flashing that can move or come loose over time. So, replacing a whole roof replaces a lot of stuff that was OK anyway, plus the problematic bits like flashing that are the real cause of leaks. For my money, I'd just replace the bad stuff.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:10 AM   #34
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The leak is not one, it's three. They've been around for awhile, because there's a good amount of fungus on the wood.
. . .
Despite his logic, the odds are now leaning toward the new new roof option. He didn't go into the attic on the other side, there could be more wood rot issues there. The gutters / fascia issue increase the likelihood of continuing expense and not one last repair.
Before you give the okay for a new roof, it might be worth investigating some ways of doing it that might save money later. This video from a tile roof contractor is obviously a sales pitch, but does make some good points about the importance of good underlayment and prep. He uses treated wood for the battens, but doesn't mention the type of fasteners used to hold the tiles on: treated wood is great stuff, but it does require the right fasteners. If you replace any decking, I would choose plywood over OSB, especially in spots more likely to get wet (valleys, chimney and other breaks in the decking, etc). Better yet, treated plywood.

Good luck!
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:57 AM   #35
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An update. I called a new roof repair business, they sent someone over late yesterday afternoon, he spent a fair amount of time crawling around the attic on one side of the house, then on the roof, and took lots of photos. The leak is not one, it's three. They've been around for awhile, because there's a good amount of fungus on the wood. The gutters will probably be a continuing source of fascia degradation, which is a major issue for DW. The advice given yesterday by the repair person is, unsurprisingly, to repair, at least for another 5 or so years. The 30 years I want out of a new roof is the upper limit, it is safer to spend a bit more now, extend the current roof a bit longer, to reduce that need for new roof life to just 25. This is like the "OMY to work for ER" discussion.

Despite his logic, the odds are now leaning toward the new new roof option. He didn't go into the attic on the other side, there could be more wood rot issues there. The gutters / fascia issue increase the likelihood of continuing expense and not one last repair.

I have concerns about warranty. Both are successful companies, proprietor owned and operated. That means a 10 year warranty needs the owner around for those 10 years. Worry and expense free for a decade is an important part of the decision. So is not having to go through this once more when we are older.

I certainly don't blame you. I had one leak in my asphalt shingles that we could not find the original source of entry. Tired from having a bucket collecting it in attic and worried about mold and rotting roof, I just cut my losses and installed a metal roof. The good news is that the original roof is only 10 years old and in good shape, so if a leak ever occurred on the metal roof the asphalt shingled roof under it will protect it, provided it isn't in the exact same place. Concerning warranties. I appreciated the honesty of the roof maker. He said the paint had a 40 year warranty, but it isn't worth the paper it is printed on.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:35 AM   #36
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The gutters will probably be a continuing source of fascia degradation, which is a major issue for DW.
Down in these parts, we use Hardiplank (Fiber Cement Siding Trim Boards - HardieTrim) for siding and for facia boards and soffits. Since it's a concrete matrix and not real wood, it doesn't rot. Many homes are also sided with this material. This may be a solution to the facia getting rotted from the gutter water.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM   #37
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After spending the weekend looking at the numbers, rereading the posts here and talking about it with DW and our house guests (DD & SiL) a new roof is the better option. Asking myself why it took so long to see this, even after putting it in the budget, my conclusion is 1) I don't want to be dealing with a new roof 25 or 30 years from now when I may not have the wherewithal ($$ or cognitive) and 2) In the back of my mind I've held the thought that we might move, and this would not be recovered in a sale.

Both of those are examples of muddled decision making and need to be taken out of the equation. If I am alive at age 90 and my health is so good I can continue to live at home long enough to need a new roof, that will be the best news ever and reason to celebrate, not worry. As for moving, DW (and anyone else that has asked) knows I'm no great fan of our current location. That probably applies to just about everywhere we've lived, though. Settling down is challenging, I've a bit of nomad blood, so I'm always thinking about the next place we can move to. As DW says, it ain't gonna happen, it's time to stick to the plan. In that case, a new roof is the better choice.

A new roof goes on under a much stricter building code, rolled out in '02, making the house much safer. We will choose materials upgrades that will improve on that. My guess is the economy remains on the current growth path and housing continues to recover, roofs will only get more expensive, so time's a'wasting. This morning I called the roofer to see if we can find a good date.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:39 PM   #38
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I like the reasoning behind the choice. I'd too would be overjoyed to be healthy enough to still be here at age 90.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:39 PM   #39
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You will not get a disagreement with me on your decision. I am cheap in some areas inside my house, but nothing matters more than on the top. Once it's done and you cut the check, you will not think twice about it, because it was a logical decision you made. Once I committed to replacing my only 10 year roof after agonizing a bit, I am very pleased about my decision. Any chance to get an energy tax credit from your roof work? I got about an extra $500 back from the Feds this year because of mine, and I appreciated their commitment in helping fund my roof.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:41 PM   #40
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My guess is the economy remains on the current growth path and housing continues to recover, roofs will only get more expensive, so time's a'wasting.
Plus, it's gonna rain again soon...
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