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Old 01-05-2015, 11:01 AM   #801
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During the first half of the Dallas-Detroit game I almost posted something here about "Romo reverting back into Romo"...
No doubt you and I were among the many thousands having that very same thought...
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:11 AM   #802
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No doubt you and I were among the many thousands having that very same thought...
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:15 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
No doubt you and I were among the many thousands having that very same thought...
You can add me to that group too. I thought he might have been hurting pretty bad but I guess that wasn't the case. Maybe either Jerry Jones and/or Chris Christie had a talk with him at half time.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:43 AM   #804
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Merely "Not playing the ball" does not constitute P.I (that used to be a penalty back in the day). Making contact with the receiver while not playing the ball does make it P.I., but its a judgement call as to how much contact there needs to be. We've all seen the play and people are on both sides of the call which means it was very close and could've been called either way. It wouldnt have been all that controversial if the refs hadnt called it, announced it, moved the ball, then moved the ball back without even announcing they were uncalling the penalty.

Ive seen plenty of fumbles and other judgement calls that the announcers thought went one way, I thought went the other way, the ref went one way and Mike Carey or Mike Perreira insisted they were wrong. Happens all the time.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:03 PM   #805
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Merely "Not playing the ball" does not constitute P.I (that used to be a penalty back in the day). Making contact with the receiver while not playing the ball does make it P.I., but its a judgement call as to how much contact there needs to be. We've all seen the play and people are on both sides of the call which means it was very close and could've been called either way. It wouldnt have been all that controversial if the refs hadnt called it, announced it, moved the ball, then moved the ball back without even announcing they were uncalling the penalty.

Ive seen plenty of fumbles and other judgement calls that the announcers thought went one way, I thought went the other way, the ref went one way and Mike Carey or Mike Perreira insisted they were wrong. Happens all the time.
Who said not playing the ball alone constitutes PI? But he was not playing the ball which brings all the other defined actions (quoted earlier) into the call.

But you're right, reasonable people will disagree, and nothing will change the outcome now (as it has to be). No dog in the fight...
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:06 PM   #806
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I looked at the video again. I did not see the receiver hold the defender's face mask at all. IMO the defender was not attempting to turn to the ball in any way whatsoever, which makes it defensive pass interference. Bad non-call IMO, but I'm glad to see that No Good Suh almost cried during the post-game press conference.
This guy said not playing the ball was P.I.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:22 PM   #807
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This guy said not playing the ball was P.I.
Ok, perhaps poor choice of words on my part, (I didn't realize were were getting so technical) but it was
(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.
Take your pick.

In any event, IMO if they had called DPI it would have been much less controversial that them not calling DPI. And throwing a flag, announcing DPI and then picking up the flag with absolutely no explanation was totally bizarre.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:29 PM   #808
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Go to page 7 of the comments section of this link, there is a video that shows another angle which does confirm Petigrew grabbing Hitchens facemask. I discovered this on a Facebook feed, so I am not sure if the video will work for you or not. I have also seen another view on TV that made it look like Petigrew was trying to pull Hitchens into him.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/20...gating-pi-call
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:44 PM   #809
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Mike Pereira is an idiot. Petigrew had him by his facemask, so he couldn't turn his head. I also noticed no call on Romo's shot into the right corner of the end zone where Williams was clearly interfered with.
I've looked at this play over and over from as many angles as I've been able to find, and I just don't see this facemask you keep talking about. I see Petigrew's hand passing in front of the facemask, but I never see him taking hold of it, especially not strongly enough to keep Hutchins from turning his head. If you have a link to a video that shows it, I'd appreciate seeing it. Otherwise I'm sticking with it having been pass interference.

Just for the record, I strongly dislike both teams, so no favoritism here.

Edit: I just saw your post, and I went to the link. You're right, there's a bit of a facemask there, but it was so long before the ball got there that it didn't effect the play and didn't show up in the videos that show the PI and the ball getting there. I would have no problem if they called a facemask there. But it occurred well before the PI they were calling. Not a contributing issue IMO.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:12 PM   #810
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Mike Pereira is an idiot. Petigrew had him by his facemask, so he couldn't turn his head. I also noticed no call on Romo's shot into the right corner of the end zone where Williams was clearly interfered with.
You're right.
  • Pettigrew just touching Hitchens face mask is a penalty,
  • but Hitchens grabbing/holding Pettigrew's jersey AND not playing the ball (never turned) AND tying up Pettigrew's right arm AND running over Pettigrew on a catchable pass is not.
Got it.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:55 PM   #811
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I am not debating the shirt grab on the line of scrimmage which wasn't called, nevertheless, I guess there is too much going on here to make the call from these limited videos. Anyhow 3 officials that had better views than the backfield ref who thru the flag determined no PI, so all of this discussion is interesting, but doesn't change the outcome. And I thought the officials that participate in these playoff games were supposed to be the best in the league.

Edit: more video for your viewing pleasure, real time this play happened very quickly - http://streamable.com/b7f
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:56 PM   #812
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:09 PM   #813
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:17 PM   #814
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From watching the replays, believe there could have been offsetting penalties and the down to have been repeated (good news for the Lions). Another approach where both players are hand fighting and battling, they could let the play go on as they eventually decided to do in very poorly handled way. To let it go as far as they did before picking up the flag was incredible but from the officials post game interview, they decided to make what they thought was the correct call even though they looked silly.

I think the appropriate call would have been to replay the down. Accident or not, the hand from the receiver got inside the face mask of the defender and the defender clearly bumped the receiver.

I think part of the issue may turn out to be that the officials that work together all year are broken up when the playoffs start so the communication suffered. Seems like a dumb process to me when the games matter most.

I think the 10 yard punt was probably a bigger issue for the Lions although I hear the argument that the punter might not have been on the field with a different call on the disputed play. The Lions offense in the second half was really off compared to how well they played during the first half.

At least this game was entertaining!
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:27 PM   #815
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Dallas fan here. It was pass interference. So, that and a nickel will get you.......

Go Cowboys. They march on for at least one more week. No need for me to defend the bad call. Just grateful for it. Not the first bad call. Won't be the last. Just glad this one broke my teams way.

The analysis of this one play is starting to seem like a SWR debate on this board. Or maybe a should I pay off the mortgage discussion.

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Old 01-05-2015, 04:56 PM   #816
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Wasn't the first wrong call I've ever seen. Won't be the last. Even in playoff games. Someone explained how the referee selection process for playoff games works. Maybe that could be improved.

It was an interesting game, Detroit fans naturally see a bad call. Some other fans might think it was Karma and Suh's prior actions.
I don't know. It is now in the past. Let the games resume!

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Old 01-05-2015, 06:47 PM   #817
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Who said not playing the ball alone constitutes PI? But he was not playing the ball which brings all the other defined actions (quoted earlier) into the call.

But you're right, reasonable people will disagree, and nothing will change the outcome now (as it has to be). No dog in the fight...

I will give you that....but...but...Dez Bryant clearly went on to field to protest call without helmet on,,and that is an automatic 15 yard penalty and first down. And yes I have an axe to grind cause the official screwed me out $250 as I had the Lions 20.5 over....


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Old 01-05-2015, 09:03 PM   #818
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And yes I have an axe to grind cause the official screwed me out $250 as I had the Lions 20.5 over....


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Old 01-05-2015, 09:59 PM   #819
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I will give you that....but...but...Dez Bryant clearly went on to field to protest call without helmet on,,and that is an automatic 15 yard penalty and first down. And yes I have an axe to grind cause the official screwed me out $250 as I had the Lions 20.5 over....


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The personal foul for taking your helmet off was started because Emmitt Smith used to do it to celebrate TDs. The NFL, for some reason always trying to take the fun out of football, wanted to stop him so they made taking your helmet off illegal. But that is for players in the game.

According to the head of officials, a player entering the field with his helmet off is NOT an automatic 15 yd penalty. Dez Bryant could've been called for the personal foul for entering the field to argue a call, but its not automatic and is up to the ref's discretion. Now if you want to talk about the NFL hoping and praying that the Cowboys advance for ratings reasons, I'm right there with you, but that's another discussion.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:03 PM   #820
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The personal foul for taking your helmet off was started because Emmitt Smith used to do it to celebrate TDs. The NFL, for some reason always trying to take the fun out of football, wanted to stop him so they made taking your helmet off illegal. But that is for players in the game.

According to the head of officials, a player entering the field with his helmet off is NOT an automatic 15 yd penalty. Dez Bryant could've been called for the personal foul for entering the field to argue a call, but its not automatic and is up to the ref's discretion. Now if you want to talk about the NFL hoping and praying that the Cowboys advance for ratings reasons, I'm right there with you, but that's another discussion.

I'm actually a big Cowboys fan. I was just incorrectly thinking that the 20.5 over was a safer play than the other possible bets. And after first quarter I thought it was a lock....wrong....


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