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Old 08-21-2005, 06:14 PM   #1
 
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 06:16 PM   #2
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
After a few Heart attacks and broken bones suffered in the process my FIL has arrived in a nursing home for rehabilitation. I have spent the last week visiting cardiac wards, nursing homes etc. etc. - The FIL really hopes he could just die! - He is tired, spouse has been dead for 10 years and everything in life is just painful!

After seeing lots of folks in their 80's lying about, mostly wanting to die and the hospitals and family's trying to 'save' them, it makes spending the evening in the garage with a $200 bottle of a good cabernet look pretty good.

I see a lot of folks on this board planning to live to 95, 105 even 120! - I wonder how many of them have ever seen even age 90 up close and in average health (which is usually not very good).

Folks hear talk about Stock market reality! - The real reality is spending a week in IC unit in a heart hospital!, visiting a nursing home. - This is always a reminder for me!
Excellent post!
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 06:22 PM   #3
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Both my parents and my MIL spent their last days in a nursing home. The women lasted longer, 2-3 years, my dad less than a year.

That convinced me that it is equally as tragic for your lifespan to be too short or too long....

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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 06:25 PM   #4
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

88 year old Mom - been there done that. Good heart - bad arthritis - wants to die at home - Dad died in 1989.

Times a wasting - ER should not be wasted - get cracking.

Heh, heh, heh.
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 06:35 PM   #5
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

If you don't want your life to end in the circumstances described in this thread you may find this web site interesting:

http://www.compassionandchoices.org/

This organization. Compassion & Choices works to improve laws governing end of life care and provides counselors for those facing terminal illnesses as well as information on living wills and other legal instruments.

I do not want my life to end as my mother's did with three years in a nursing home with alzheimers. I will be sure to have the means available to end my life long before reaching that state.

Grumpy
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 06:52 PM   #6
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

My wife and I both have grandparents who lived to 90+ in pretty good health. I agree that there is a certain point in which quality of life gets low enough that pulling the trigger looks like a good alternative. I think it's too hard for me to nail down all possibilities in a health care directive, but I'll know it when I see it.

BTW, everybody knows that our health care system is geared towards addressing acute problems rather than prevention, but I think there is a HUGE market for prevention. Many diseases, such as diabetes, CHD, and others are long-term progressive illnesses. I mean *really* long-term.

It'll probably be too late for our generation, but I think early detection and prevention will define the next wave of medicine, and life span will jump again. Healthy 120 year-olds might be a common sight.

The science of death is pretty interesting. Very few body parts really "wear out" if maintained well.
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 07:27 PM   #7
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
My wife and I both have grandparents who lived to 90+ in pretty good health.* *I agree that there is a certain point in which quality of life gets low enough that pulling the trigger looks like a good alternative.* * I think it's too hard for me to nail down all possibilities in a health care directive, but I'll know it when I see it.

BTW, everybody knows that our health care system is geared towards addressing acute problems rather than prevention, but I think there is a HUGE market for prevention.* *Many diseases, such as diabetes, CHD, and others are long-term progressive illnesses.* *I mean *really* long-term.

It'll probably be too late for our generation, but I think early detection and prevention will define the next wave of medicine, and life span will jump again.* *Healthy 120 year-olds might be a common sight.

The science of death is pretty interesting.* *Very few body parts really "wear out" if maintained well.
It's interesting to talk about family genes and their role. I put very little stock in this.

My parents are living, 87 and 85.
Dad's parents at death (Father 100+ mother 70ish)
Mom's parents at death (Father 72, mother 56)
Dad's grandparents, 100+ and ?
Mom's grandparents, 80s

I had 3 aunts (no uncles) all deceased, around 70, 42 and 42.

The men on Dad's side were very long-lived. Otherwise, it's pretty spotty.

JG
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 07:28 PM   #8
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Very few body parts really "wear out" if maintained well.
Uh Oh. Here comes T-Al with another message from the stuffed-beaver...

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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 07:47 PM   #9
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I see a lot of folks on this board planning to live to 95, 105 even 120! - I wonder how many of them have ever seen even age 90 up close and in average health (which is usually not very good).
Thanks for the reminder Cut-Throat...many of us put a lot of effort into long term financial planning, forgetting that our window of "good" years may be smaller than we expect. *No doubt medical advances will continue to produce incremental gains, but there's a good reason retiree spending falls so predictabley over the years..My MIL is in assisted living @ 85 and not having much fun. *Achieving balance after ER seems just as important as balance during the accumulation years.* Hmmm,* maybe 3.5% SWR is a bit harsh after all?
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 08:21 PM   #10
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

My MIL was mostly lucky. One year in assisted living and 2 months in the nursing home section. First 6 months OK. Second 6 months she really started going down hill (terminal emphasima and down to 65 lbs!). She requested and got hospice care in the nursing home and it was a godsend for DW. The hospice people were tremendous and it was a peaceful ending about 6 months ago. She was mid 70's and smoked all her life.

My folks are mid 70's and seem ready to go another 20. They do a decent job of staying fit.
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 08:39 PM   #11
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I see a lot of folks on this board planning to live to 95, 105 even 120! - I wonder how many of them have ever seen even age 90 up close and in average health (which is usually not very good).
I'm sorry your FIL is having to deal with all that pain, Cut-Throat. *Too many doctors ignore pain management & hospice until it's too late.

I don't always make the distinction, but I'm not so much planning to live that long as I'm planning to have our finances last at least that long. *If you have to pick a life term for your portfolio then it makes sense to pick the longest one that seems even a tiny bit reasonable. *I'd say that's at least 90 and quite possibly 120. *Heck, maybe we should all have portfolios that throw off 4% inflation-adjusted dividends.

The people that are in their 90s today survived their youth without antibiotics, medical technology, and most public health measures. *They got through adulthood without just about any protective gear and with plenty of alcohol & cigarettes. *

Spouse's grandparents all lived well into their 90s. *Her parents are in excellent health (no meds, no disabilities, still very active) at 71/68 and she is too. *I'm jealous of her BP of 100/55.

Two of my grandparents lived well into their 90s. *One died from misconduct (a high fat, high carb, high sodium diet and carrying 50 extra pounds) after plenty of small strokes (TIAs) and the big one. *Another died from an accident. *My mother was doing great until she developed breast cancer but my father is still in excellent health (no meds, no disabilities. *He's 71, he's been ER'd for 18 years, he still hikes 30-40 miles/week in the Rockies altitudes, and he shows no signs of slowing down.

Given the family genetics and today's medical capabilities it's not unreasonable to prepare one way or another to live to at least your 90s. *You could prepare to live them in good health with a survivable portfolio or you could prepare to end your life before your physical & financial resources run out. *But the most foolhardy thing would seem to be to not make any preparations at all...
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-21-2005, 11:06 PM   #12
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

sorry to hear that c-t. I do know several in their 90s that arent too bad off and still living at home.
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-22-2005, 09:12 AM   #13
 
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

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After seeing lots of folks in their 80's lying about, mostly wanting to die...
I truly think that I would commit suicide if I were in that situation. *It seems to me that it would be so much better than just waiting. *Perhaps thinking about it in the abstract is different, and if the time comes, I would want to continue living. *

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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-22-2005, 10:17 AM   #14
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

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Too many doctors ignore pain management...
Many doctors are too terrified of the DEA to prescribe adequate pain meds. I read an article by one doctor who was falsely accused of something or other by the DEA. After a lengthy investigation, he was proved innocent. The process was so horrible that he vowed never to prescribe pain meds to anyone ever again.

What a nightmare for those who are in pain.
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........
Old 08-22-2005, 10:49 AM   #15
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Re: A week in Hospitals with my FIL...........

On more reason to STOP the WOD!!
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