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Non-evaporating synthetic machine oil
Old 01-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #1
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Non-evaporating synthetic machine oil

I am about to do a repair on a very complex device. Among the recommended things to have before starting the repair is

Non-evaporating synthetic machine oil

Can anybody here recommend a brand I can look for? I am told that my old standby 3-in-1 oil does not make the grade.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:27 PM   #2
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http://froglube.com
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:42 PM   #3
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Really depends on a number of factors, is it a bearing, a gear, a cylinder, a chain? What sort of load are you talking? Anyway, I worked on automated machinery for 35 years and a company called Lubriplate made a wide assortment of industrial lubricants, which I used.
A sewing machine is quite complex when you take it apart.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:42 PM   #4
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This stuff looks like it meets the criteria, and may be at you local Home Depot.

Super Lube 11 oz. Aerosol-31110 - The Home Depot
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:11 PM   #5
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This stuff looks like it meets the criteria, and may be at you local Home Depot.

Super Lube 11 oz. Aerosol-31110 - The Home Depot
Most, (all?) aerosol lubricants will come with a volatile carrier/propellant to get it out of the can. Clarification on use/weight would be helpful.
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:11 PM   #6
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The term "Non-evaporating synthetic machine oil" isn't specific enough. There are many things that define a lubricant - viscosity, temperature performance, acidity, - far more than I know about. I just know there's a lot to it.

let's see - wiki has some info:

Quote:
Synthetic oils:
Polyalpha-olefin (PAO)
Synthetic esters
Polyalkylene glycols (PAG)
Phosphate esters
Alkylated naphthalenes (AN)
Silicate esters
Ionic fluids
Multiply alkylated cyclopentanes (MAC)


and...

Lubricants perform the following key functions:
Keep moving parts apart
Reduce friction
Transfer heat
Carry away contaminants & debris
Transmit power
Protect against wear
Prevent corrosion
Seal for gases
Stop the risk of smoke and fire of objects
Prevent rust.


If this is a complex machine, I think you really need to get specifics from people familiar with the device. What is it?

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Old 01-18-2017, 03:52 PM   #7
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If I had to guess, the "non-evaporating, synthetic" designation would be to prevent future 'varnishing' of the lubricant leading to a sticky situation - the reason to lubricate lock mechanisms with graphite powder. This lube should be fine with sewing machines, clocks and other delicate machinery requiring a lightweight oil.

https://www.amazon.com/Bearings-EXTR...etic+clock+oil
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:57 PM   #8
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I am going to disassemble a large printer that needs the belt that moves the printhead carriage replaced. The belt is starting to shred. The oil will be used to lubricate the bar the carriage slides on. There is no other description of the oil, but there is a warning not to use WD40 or 3-in-1 oil. My guess is that sewing machine oil will work, but I thought I would get some good advice here. Changing the belt is an all day task for the inexperienced so I want to avoid mistakes if possible.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:14 AM   #9
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I'm sure its a fine product, but if you look at their spec sheets...................

http://froglube.com/froglube-product...pecifications/
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:54 AM   #10
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I think I would use a dry lubricant like graphite or molybdenum disulfide.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I am going to disassemble a large printer that needs the belt that moves the printhead carriage replaced. The belt is starting to shred. The oil will be used to lubricate the bar the carriage slides on. There is no other description of the oil, but there is a warning not to use WD40 or 3-in-1 oil. My guess is that sewing machine oil will work, but I thought I would get some good advice here. Changing the belt is an all day task for the inexperienced so I want to avoid mistakes if possible.
Seems odd that they are not more specific. But I guess that a printer carriage isn't very demanding (no huge stresses, speed, temperatures, contaminants?). A light oil that maintains a good film and doesn't turn gummy is probably all it needs. WD-40 is more of a penetrating oil than a long term lubricant, and I think much of it evaporates after a while. Not sure what would be wrong with 3-in-1 though, so that makes me wonder what is appropriate.

So any of the high quality lubes people have mentioned are probably fine, but I would still think a search of sites specific to these large printers (plotter?) would turn up more applicable info. Why guess after doing all this work?

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Old 01-19-2017, 07:35 AM   #12
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I got curious about 3-in-1, and search came up with this interesting article on clock oils - he says 3-in-1 will sludge up over time (and the unique smell, locked in my memory from childhood, is citronella - didn't know that, makes sense now!).

http://www.kensclockclinic.com/wp-co...Clock-Oils.pdf

Bottom line, after trying all sorts of exotic/$$$ oils, he now uses mostly Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40 for his clock works.

-ERD50
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I got curious about 3-in-1, and search came up with this interesting article on clock oils - he says 3-in-1 will sludge up over time (and the unique smell, locked in my memory from childhood, is citronella - didn't know that, makes sense now!).

http://www.kensclockclinic.com/wp-co...Clock-Oils.pdf

Bottom line, after trying all sorts of exotic/$$$ oils, he now uses mostly Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40 for his clock works.

-ERD50
FWIW, I read an article that claimed the formulation for 3-in-1 oil changed after the company that made it was bought out. The fellow claims he is getting more residue than previously. This is all hearsay, of course.

So far, sewing machine oil seems best. Fortunately, the only part that needs lubricating is easy to get to, so I can clean and re-lube easily.

In case your curious as to the monster that I plan on working on:


HP Z3200 Printer Repair Belt replacement Instructions and Notes- HP Z3100 and Z3200 printers
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:13 AM   #14
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I replaced the belt on my Z3200 several years ago (have since sold the printer). I followed the hour long youtube video by cigarobession. It only took me a whole day.

During the process I did a bunch of research on the oil. I think what people recommend is using the NYE synthetic oil PP269 which can be found as part of the NYE Hobbyiest Kit https://www.lubekits.com/?load=hobby

Here is the link that made the suggestion: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video See comment by Dinkla. He states that the official oil by HP is NYE 179.

I found the oil online (maybe ebay or amazon I don't remember). It was expensive so I used it, saved a bit and then resold it for basically what I paid (less fees).

Based on the ad text around the NYE oil kit, probably you can also go to an electronic / RC / model train place and find something similar.
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:19 AM   #15
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Thanks, photoguy, for the information.

I have the oil, the replacement belt, and took the printer apart.
I attached my shiny new belt and started to put the print-head carriage back on the rail it slides back and forth on.

Then I heard some little do-hickey fall onto the floor. I picked it up and tried to figure out where it came from. Another little object fell on the floor! It used to be part of the first do-hickey that fell. It seems that a small bushing on the rear of the carriage broke. It is a flimsy piece of plastic that is notorious for breaking, especially when doing this repair. Alas, non of the materials I read or viewed mentioned that. So, for lack of a bushing, the repair effort timeline went down the toilet. I figure some bean-counter at HP decided that they could save 50 by making this thing cheap, rather than using metal or reinforced plastic (which some people with the equipment have done for themselves).

This idiotic little thing is apparently difficult to find. I did find a place in Hong Kong that sells them - $13!!! - but it will take a month to get it. So, I found a place in Florida that has some inventory left over and I am getting two of them. They come in pairs and I now know why. $18 each for this fragile piece of plastic less than 3 inches long.

The best laid plans of mice and men........

I hope I can remember how to put the printer back together.
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Old 01-31-2017, 03:12 PM   #16
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You probably had trouble because you were using the wrong terminology.

It's important to differentiate between a doohickey, a thingamabob, a thingamajig, a whatchamacallit, and a widget (in alphabetical order).

When you search for an unusual doomaflodgit like that, it will help immeasurably if you ask for the correct item.

Hope that helps!
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Old 01-31-2017, 04:04 PM   #17
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Thanks, photoguy, for the information.

I have the oil, the replacement belt, and took the printer apart.
I attached my shiny new belt and started to put the print-head carriage back on the rail it slides back and forth on.

Then I heard some little do-hickey fall onto the floor. I picked it up and tried to figure out where it came from. Another little object fell on the floor! It used to be part of the first do-hickey that fell. It seems that a small bushing on the rear of the carriage broke. It is a flimsy piece of plastic that is notorious for breaking, especially when doing this repair. Alas, non of the materials I read or viewed mentioned that. So, for lack of a bushing, the repair effort timeline went down the toilet. I figure some bean-counter at HP decided that they could save 50 by making this thing cheap, rather than using metal or reinforced plastic (which some people with the equipment have done for themselves).

This idiotic little thing is apparently difficult to find. I did find a place in Hong Kong that sells them - $13!!! - but it will take a month to get it. So, I found a place in Florida that has some inventory left over and I am getting two of them. They come in pairs and I now know why. $18 each for this fragile piece of plastic less than 3 inches long.

The best laid plans of mice and men........

I hope I can remember how to put the printer back together.


Very entertaining story - thanks for sharing and do let us know when you get it back together
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Old 01-31-2017, 04:22 PM   #18
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You probably had trouble because you were using the wrong terminology.

It's important to differentiate between a doohickey, a thingamabob, a thingamajig, a whatchamacallit, and a widget (in alphabetical order).

When you search for an unusual doomaflodgit like that, it will help immeasurably if you ask for the correct item.

Hope that helps!
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind the next time some thingamajigger gobsmacks me.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:20 PM   #19
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I hope I can remember how to put the printer back together.
Sorry about the glitch, can't help you there. But as far as putting it back together - take pictures. Pictures AND video.

I still get caught by that, take a bunch of screws out, pop off a few pieces, it seems it will be easy to put it back together. Then you quickly realize there was only one way for it to come apart, but dozens of possible ways for it to (not quite) go together!

-ERD50
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:39 AM   #20
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Sorry about the glitch, can't help you there. But as far as putting it back together - take pictures. Pictures AND video.

I still get caught by that, take a bunch of screws out, pop off a few pieces, it seems it will be easy to put it back together. Then you quickly realize there was only one way for it to come apart, but dozens of possible ways for it to (not quite) go together!

-ERD50
Thanks. Good advice.

I did take a lot of pictures. I also printed out the service manual. As I did each step I put the parts (at least the smaller ones) in a zip lock bag. When I was done I stapled the bag to the the page of the service manual for that step.

Still, I was hoping to re-assemble the thing while it was all fresh in my mind. Hopefully, reviewing the Youtube video will be a sufficient refresher course. (Did I mention that some very nice guy made a video of the entire disassembly process and put it out on Youtube? There is a special place in heaven for people like him.)

One thing for sure. It's fun and I am learning a lot about how things are put together.
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