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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy
Old 06-24-2004, 07:07 PM   #21
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy

A company called Proton makes hydrogen generators
for the semi-conductor industry. They make generators
that produce about 100 cu. ft per 17 KWH input.
This is pretty close to the 1000 cu ft per 150 KWH
noted by Nords. The link is provided below:

http://www.protonenergy.com/index.ph...lers/index.htm

Does anybody have any idea what is the overall
efficiency of a natural gas fired electrical plant?
Like X cu. ft/hr to produce Y KWH?

OK, I know this is boring to most of you but please
be patient.

Thanks,

Charlie
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy
Old 06-24-2004, 07:33 PM   #22
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy

Ok, I found a source that says conventional gas
fired steam generators max out at about 37%
efficiency while gas turbine plants can achieve
about 50% efficiency.

So Nords, what am missing? In my previous post
I calculated that for 100% conversion efficiency,
we could get 6.64 KWH output per KWH input.

At 50% efficiency, we still get 3.32 KWH output
per KWH input.

"All we have to do" is scale up the Proton generator,
tap into the grid to "prime the pump" (so to speak)
and achieve lift off into the hydrogen economy.

Cheers,

Charlie

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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy
Old 06-25-2004, 01:41 PM   #23
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy

Well, I screwed up the calculation. As it turns out,
the heat equivalent of H2 is about 297 BTU per cu. ft.,
not 3400 BTU as previously reported. Thus the
conversion yields only 0.58 KWH output per KWH in.

Back to the drawing board.

@&!&#

Charlie
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy
Old 06-26-2004, 01:25 PM   #24
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy

More importantly, how does one invest in these technologies?

I've investigated wind which on the plus side is cost-effective. But it requires a lot of land, and I've got to think that if something more practical comes up, that will become the predominant source of power generation.
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy
Old 06-27-2004, 05:31 AM   #25
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Re: Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy

I still get the touts in the mailbox - even after eleven years of ER. Mostly biotech, IT, but enegy has been picking up lately. You know the ones - buy this new mini-stock because it will made you rich while they 'revoluntionize' this or that. Or course the touter has probably been granted a large block of stock at low or no cost - but heh heh - I don't know that because they never mention 'that' in the flyer.

Seriously - I think utes are still the the safest way to play - even though it's a small part of a larger operation you get divs. The hardware people are probably also large and mutli faceted to control risk - the same with the construction/engineering cats. Maybe some poking around would turn up smaller co's with better risk/reward but I ain't about to bet my ER on Ballard Power or that ilk yet.
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Whakamole, what about these investments?
Old 06-28-2004, 10:18 AM   #26
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Whakamole, what about these investments?

I don't think any of the energy stocks are going to benefit anyone as much as their insiders.

Another poster pointed out that the airline industry has been an investment zero-- unless you're a company that ships things. Airlines have been great for companies depending on transportation logistics. But they sure haven't enriched many of their executives or employees, let alone their investors.

So perhaps that applies to energy as well- the beneficiaries are the producers, maintainers, and the delivery systems.

Berkshire Hathaway (for their MidAmerican subsidiary)
IYE or other utility ETFs
Exelon (a popular employer of many nuke veterans)
Infrasource Services (IFS)

Finally, if you want a nice dividend-paying utility stock with an absolutely captive market that can't risk deregulation, try Hawaiian Electric (HE).
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