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Old 03-18-2008, 11:11 PM   #21
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I liked the speech.

I did keep looking for evidence of his views on racially based affirmative action. He seemed to drift from statements that seemed to support special help for African Americans based only on race to statements that supprorted programs that would help all needy Americans, regardless of race.

How did you read it? Will he advocate racially based affirmative action? Or will he favor and support programs that benefit needy, underserved, citizens of all skin colors?
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:27 PM   #22
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Not that I particularly care for Bill O'Reilly (but I do watch him sometimes) - he made a good point this evening: O'Reilly pointed out that when a sitting US Senator attends church and maintains a close personal relationship with a pastor who teaches that the US Govt invented AIDS to destroy the black community (among other radical ideas) - does the Senators attendance not consititue an endorsement of those ideas to other people who attend the church & give an air of legitimacy to the pastors message?

As a US Senator, Obama should know better - IMO this is either -
extremely poor judgement at a minimum
or
Obama actually agrees with a lot of these ideas (not that he could ever admit it publicly).

Suppose a politician regularly attended Fred Phelps church for 20 years - then when running for higher office denounced Phelps anti-gay message & tried to tell you he was only there for the spiritual/religious aspects? Would you buy it?

Obama's words say he deplores the ideas of his pastor & friend - but his actions over the past 20 years indicate differently.

He's seems to be doing a real good job of "unifying" the country at the moment!
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:28 PM   #23
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It was a good response.

But, white folks don't like being demonized any more than any other group of people.

I resent Wrights remarks and think they are over the top. It reminded me of Al Sharpton.

Obama is not responsible for Wrights remarks. I do not hold him accountable for it.


But the whole thing puts a bit of a cloud on things. This development hurt Obama.
While Obama might not be responsible for Wright's remarks, he has used Pastor Wright as his spiritual adviser for 20 years. If Obama did not believe what was being preeched, he would/should have walked a long time ago.

Something smells fishy in Denmark.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:45 PM   #24
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DW and I have been going to the same church for many years. A few years ago the first Harry Potter movie came out and the pastor railed against withcraft and tried to tell us how the movies were trying to recruit our children to paganism. We rolled our eyes and continued with our lives. But we still go to the church and still consider the pastor a friend. I guess if I ever run for office I'll be scrutinized for this?

My father-in-law uses phrases like "Cheech and Kong" when he sees a Hispanic and an African-American walking or driving together. It makes me want to throw up, but I still "closely associate" with him.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who really, in their heart of hearts, seriously considered voting for Mr. Obama but now have decided to vote for Hillary/McCain. I'd like to hear what you liked about him before you tell me why this pushed you away from him.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:11 AM   #25
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Racial hatred is such a "hot button" it should always be avoided, especially by a politician.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:57 AM   #26
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I'm curious to hear what the Obama critics think of McCain making amends with Jerry Falwell, going so far as giving the commencement speech at Liberty U, after calling him an 'agent of intolerance' in 2000.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:14 AM   #27
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Will he advocate racially based affirmative action? Or will he favor and support programs that benefit needy, underserved, citizens of all skin colors?
Who is his core support, blacks or whites?

How could there be affirmative action for everyone? That is called no afffirmative action.

Affirmative action by definition is re-norming the merit bases rules for some specially defined group. We have welfare for poor people of all races; be have affirmative action for all people, poor, middle class, and rich, as long as they are defined as belonging to some special groups which as far as I know are defined in the affirmative action laws by assigned race.

A wealth black businessman will get affimative action for example if he is bidding for spectrum or government construction jobs. A cracker with a pick-up truck will be out of luck.

Ha
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:36 AM   #28
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I am not supporting Obama for President, but neither do I support the idea of tearing him down as a person. I do not think it is right to render him down to a handful of vitriolic statements made by his angry pastor.

If this story had broken 2 months ago do you thin Obama would have won the delegates he has won?

The Dems may be caught in a trap. An unelectable candidate. It looks like there are not enough delegates left where Hillary can catch up. It looks like Florida and Michigan are not going to have a redo. If the Super Delegates move from Obama to Hillary... it will be painted as a racist and prejudiced move.

It seems that Hillary and McCain are not touching this thing with a 10 foot pole. I don't blame them... they would likely be painted as racist by someone.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:04 AM   #29
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DW and I have been going to the same church for many years. A few years ago the first Harry Potter movie came out and the pastor railed against withcraft and tried to tell us how the movies were trying to recruit our children to paganism.
Maybe he was just mixed up. If he had picked on The Golden Compass, he would have been right - or close to.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:05 AM   #30
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"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Did he really need to throw his grandmother under the bus to make a point? Couldn't he at least have said - ... that made me cringe but I now understand that she was also a victum of the racisim of the times.
Didn't any of his black relatives say things that made him cringe?

I don't think the senator is the unifier people are projecting him to be.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:08 AM   #31
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DW and I have been going to the same church for many years. A few years ago the first Harry Potter movie came out and the pastor railed against withcraft and tried to tell us how the movies were trying to recruit our children to paganism. We rolled our eyes and continued with our lives. But we still go to the church and still consider the pastor a friend. I guess if I ever run for office I'll be scrutinized for this?

My father-in-law uses phrases like "Cheech and Kong" when he sees a Hispanic and an African-American walking or driving together. It makes me want to throw up, but I still "closely associate" with him.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who really, in their heart of hearts, seriously considered voting for Mr. Obama but now have decided to vote for Hillary/McCain. I'd like to hear what you liked about him before you tell me why this pushed you away from him.
You are equating a statement about Harry Potter with the racists ones such as whites developed aids to kill blacks?

Before you ask others for something maybe you should make the case that the statements the pastor made are not that bad and the senator was wrong to denounced them. How about it?
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:59 AM   #32
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A cracker with a pick-up truck will be out of luck.

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Old 03-19-2008, 10:03 AM   #33
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Whites have these people, too, but they are less tolerated, so they stay underground. They may be preaching in some church in the backwaters and handling snakes at revival meetings, but they aren't preaching in large urban churches.
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Perhaps. What I do know is that any church this overt about its politics and about political issues should lose its tax exemption.
Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, ... (I know, Rush is not an ordained preacher ...) Some are not so underground ... I agree that some of these churches should lose their tax exemptions.

I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.

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Old 03-19-2008, 10:08 AM   #34
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Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, ... (I know, Rush is not an ordained preacher ...) Some are not so underground ... I agree that some of these churches should lose their tax exemptions.
To include Rush in that group is silly.........

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I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.
I read and listened to the speech, and while I will give props to Obama as a great orator, I didn't see much else to be excited about. Clearly the speech was meant for Caucasian moderate Republican voters like me, but it didn't work for me as a voter.......sorry.......:confused:

BTW, I am not rascist........

t.r.[/quote]
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:11 AM   #35
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That's racist; but it's only a word ...
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:12 AM   #36
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I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.

t.r.
Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.

I watched the whole speech live on line.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:17 AM   #37
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Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.

I watched the whole speech live on line.
Obama talks a great game, it's the implementation plan that he gets hung up on. He better have a STRONG VP candidate if he wants to win in November.......
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:18 AM   #38
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I read and listened to the speech, and while I will give props to Obama as a great orator, I didn't see much else to be excited about. Clearly the speech was meant for Caucasian moderate Republican voters like me, but it didn't work for me as a voter.......sorry.......:confused:
That's the thing about Obama. He's so long on eloquence and hope and unity that people desperately want to believe he can deliver this. But over and over again, he's short on specifics. I can't stand the Clintons, but at least Hillary provides some specifics.

His words make people feel good and hopeful. He's not the first person out there to do that. JFK did that. Reagan did that. To some degree, Bill Clinton did that. But words have to be backed by actions, and to date, I know very little about what actions a President Obama would take in order to turn these hopes into realities.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:26 AM   #39
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Two things struck me:

First, the pastor thing should be a non-issue, and would be except that the media found something that could be whipped up into a big deal, increase viewers, and sell more commercials.

Second, I wonder what percentage of voters saw the Obama speech. In 1952, there were three (?) networks, and I'll bet that a lot of people watched the Nixon checkers speech. Today there are hundreds of channels, most people don't watch the news, and what they do watch concerns Britney Spears or Dupre.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:29 AM   #40
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Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.
"Changes in mindsets" (my term, not Obama's) in my thought are throughout the speech; he's just asking people to be more open minded:

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I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.
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The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.
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In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.
The second part is not so easy (specific policies). That is clearly Obama's primary weakness and why I'm still not sure I'm ready to support him. But then again this speech was to address a particular topic; his relationship with his outspoken pastor; and I think he addresses that fairly clearly.

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