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Oil refinery blast today. In Texas.
Old 02-18-2008, 07:18 PM   #1
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Oil refinery blast today. In Texas.

Alon USA Energy Inc. or Alon USA (NYSE: ALJ) Alon USA Energy, Inc. is headquartered in Dallas, Texas and engages in refining and marketing petroleum products primarily in the southwestern and south central regions of the United States. Alon USA was formed after Alon Israel Oil Company Ltd, the largest Israeli-based fuel company, purchased from Total S.A. over 1,700 FINA retail stations, an oil refinery, pipelines and terminals in the US.

Explosion rocks West Texas refinery owned by Dallas company | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Latest News


Tin foil hat time, the hezbollah terrorist who was killed in damascus last week and the threats from them later last week against american and Israeli interests

I don't know but I would wonder.

I wonder what the price of oil will look like tomorrow. 100 a barrel? 105?? 110?
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:34 PM   #2
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Now is about the time the Bush administration brings Cheney out of the bunker to reiterate we won't take the nuclear option off the table in terms of Iran and North Korea... The timing is purely coincidental...
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:19 PM   #3
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No tinfoil hat necessary.

Refineries and chemical plants that are to be sold have their maintenance cut to nothing. SOP in the business. There is a reason for maintenance and to do without it is a recipe for disaster. Therefore, disaster. (Yawn.) One benefit of being a design engineer instead of an operations engineer.

Lucky Ed
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:01 PM   #4
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Explosion at a refinery? How suspicious...
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:31 AM   #5
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Explosion at a refinery? How suspicious...
Any time the price of gas seems stable, something happens to jack it up a couple dimes more. Convenient, isn't it?
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:02 PM   #6
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Bloomberg.com: Energy Prices
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:32 PM   #7
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This is interesting to me. Crude is bought by refineries, product sold by refineries. Rationally, short term demand for crude should drop, causing crude prices to drop. Short term supply of product should fall, causing product prices to rise.

What happened? Everything went up, crude futures most of all!

Not only that, natural gas futures went up in line with crude and products.

I don't think the explosion could have had much to do with these changes.

OTOH, the explosion made a refinery stock I own go up 17% overnight. That makes sense.

Ha
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:45 PM   #8
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This is interesting to me. Crude is bought by refineries, product sold by refineries. Rationally, short term demand for crude should drop, causing crude prices to drop. Short term supply of product should fall, causing product prices to rise.

What happened? Everything went up, crude futures most of all!

Not only that, natural gas futures went up in line with crude and products.

I don't think the explosion could have had much to do with these changes.

OTOH, the explosion made a refinery stock I own go up 17% overnight. That makes sense.

Ha
Commodities are all in a bubble, perhaps the last asset bubble left standing in the markets. Right now ANYTHING is an excuse to bid them up.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:09 PM   #9
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Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:14 PM   #10
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Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
Im not complaining about it.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:41 PM   #11
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....we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
Oh newguy.... oil IS cheap, by definition.

When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.

Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.

-ERD50
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:46 PM   #12
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I like it ERD, great idea
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:53 PM   #13
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Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.
This is the opposite of what the state of Oregon has experimented with. They have run pilot programs where motorists are taxed per mile instead of per gallon of gas consumed. That means that a Prius driver would get a massive tax increase while a Hummer driver would get a hefty tax cut.

It's hard for me to believe that a bluish, eco-conscious state like Oregon would consider such a stupid move that discourages conservation.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:53 PM   #14
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Oh newguy.... oil IS cheap, by definition.

When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.

Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.

-ERD50

That is a great idea. My concern is that what we have today is a country set up for cheap oil. People live a ways from their jobs and when the price spikes as it will these people who made poor choices with the vehicle they have suv 16mpg will hurt everyone since the economy will stall. These people will only buy gasoline which in turn funds the wonderful humans of the middle east. I don't know about you but I would tax the begeesus out of gasoline and get americans into smaller cars and rebuild the railroads. I hate giving the saudis, and others a penny! Tax on gasoline would keep money here in america.
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:17 PM   #15
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.... My concern is that what we have today is a country set up for cheap oil. People live a ways from their jobs ...
absolutely. Only raising the price or limiting supply is going to change that. And the taxes could be completely revenue neutral, so yes, the money would stay in the US, and we would overall save money.

But the general public and our politicians do not seem to want to look at it this way.

What to do?

-ERD50
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:10 PM   #16
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When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.

Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.

-ERD50
I wanted to believe that people would wise up without being manipulated (like taxing energy). But after decades of waiting I'm afraid ERD50 is right, it ain't gonna happen until the prices really start to hurt people (either taxes or crude prices, and the former benefits US more).

We bought our first hybrid a year ago, and it's been amazing...
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:21 PM   #17
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Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
They should change the Daytona 500 to the Daytona 5. The only interesting part is the last few laps. Actually moror racing is no more wasteful than any other sport. It's not the gas in the race cars, its the gas the 100,000 people use to get there.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM   #18
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Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve.
And also rich people who live on 5th Avenue. Kind of hard on the poor guy who lives with his family out in the boonies in Ohio and drives 60 miles to his job at the Honda plant. And of course his wife drives somewhere in the opposite direction in her car to get to her job.

Ha
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:20 PM   #19
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I don't know about you but I would tax the begeesus out of gasoline and get americans into smaller cars and rebuild the railroads.
Railroads will carry more and more freight. 100 years from now they will still be carrying very few passengers.Ha
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:21 PM   #20
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I wanted to believe that people would wise up without being manipulated (like taxing energy). But after decades of waiting I'm afraid ERD50 is right, it ain't gonna happen until the prices really start to hurt people (either taxes or crude prices, and the former benefits US more).

We bought our first hybrid a year ago, and it's been amazing...
What kind of mileage are you really getting with your hybrid? I have a 4 cyl camry 05 that gets 32 in the city and 35 on the highway. Drive now about 12K a year. The car cost me 18K. So if I buy a hybrid and get 10 miles more per gallon I still lose money over 7 years compared to my 4 banger camry at 18 K Since the markup on say a Prius is 25K 7 K more for the car.
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