|
|
Oil refinery blast today. In Texas.
02-18-2008, 06:18 PM
|
#1
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,146
|
Oil refinery blast today. In Texas.
Alon USA Energy Inc. or Alon USA ( NYSE: ALJ) Alon USA Energy, Inc. is headquartered in Dallas, Texas and engages in refining and marketing petroleum products primarily in the southwestern and south central regions of the United States. Alon USA was formed after Alon Israel Oil Company Ltd, the largest Israeli-based fuel company, purchased from Total S.A. over 1,700 FINA retail stations, an oil refinery, pipelines and terminals in the US.
Explosion rocks West Texas refinery owned by Dallas company | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Latest News
Tin foil hat time, the hezbollah terrorist who was killed in damascus last week and the threats from them later last week against american and Israeli interests
I don't know but I would wonder.
I wonder what the price of oil will look like tomorrow. 100 a barrel? 105?? 110?
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
02-18-2008, 07:34 PM
|
#2
|
Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 39
|
Now is about the time the Bush administration brings Cheney out of the bunker to reiterate we won't take the nuclear option off the table in terms of Iran and North Korea... The timing is purely coincidental...
|
|
|
02-18-2008, 08:19 PM
|
#3
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,588
|
No tinfoil hat necessary.
Refineries and chemical plants that are to be sold have their maintenance cut to nothing. SOP in the business. There is a reason for maintenance and to do without it is a recipe for disaster. Therefore, disaster. (Yawn.) One benefit of being a design engineer instead of an operations engineer.
Lucky Ed
__________________
I have outlived most of the people I don't like and I am working on the rest.
|
|
|
02-18-2008, 10:01 PM
|
#4
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
|
Explosion at a refinery? How suspicious...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 09:31 AM
|
#5
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
Explosion at a refinery? How suspicious...
|
Any time the price of gas seems stable, something happens to jack it up a couple dimes more. Convenient, isn't it?
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 02:02 PM
|
#6
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 488
|
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 02:32 PM
|
#7
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
|
This is interesting to me. Crude is bought by refineries, product sold by refineries. Rationally, short term demand for crude should drop, causing crude prices to drop. Short term supply of product should fall, causing product prices to rise.
What happened? Everything went up, crude futures most of all!
Not only that, natural gas futures went up in line with crude and products.
I don't think the explosion could have had much to do with these changes.
OTOH, the explosion made a refinery stock I own go up 17% overnight. That makes sense.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 02:45 PM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
This is interesting to me. Crude is bought by refineries, product sold by refineries. Rationally, short term demand for crude should drop, causing crude prices to drop. Short term supply of product should fall, causing product prices to rise.
What happened? Everything went up, crude futures most of all!
Not only that, natural gas futures went up in line with crude and products.
I don't think the explosion could have had much to do with these changes.
OTOH, the explosion made a refinery stock I own go up 17% overnight. That makes sense.
Ha
|
Commodities are all in a bubble, perhaps the last asset bubble left standing in the markets. Right now ANYTHING is an excuse to bid them up.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:09 PM
|
#9
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,146
|
Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:14 PM
|
#10
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,764
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
|
Im not complaining about it.
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:41 PM
|
#11
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,896
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
....we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
|
Oh newguy.... oil IS cheap, by definition.
When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.
Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.
-ERD50
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:46 PM
|
#12
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,083
|
I like it ERD, great idea
__________________
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:53 PM
|
#13
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.
|
This is the opposite of what the state of Oregon has experimented with. They have run pilot programs where motorists are taxed per mile instead of per gallon of gas consumed. That means that a Prius driver would get a massive tax increase while a Hummer driver would get a hefty tax cut.
It's hard for me to believe that a bluish, eco-conscious state like Oregon would consider such a stupid move that discourages conservation.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 03:53 PM
|
#14
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,146
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Oh newguy.... oil IS cheap, by definition.
When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.
Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.
-ERD50
|
That is a great idea. My concern is that what we have today is a country set up for cheap oil. People live a ways from their jobs and when the price spikes as it will these people who made poor choices with the vehicle they have suv 16mpg will hurt everyone since the economy will stall. These people will only buy gasoline which in turn funds the wonderful humans of the middle east. I don't know about you but I would tax the begeesus out of gasoline and get americans into smaller cars and rebuild the railroads. I hate giving the saudis, and others a penny! Tax on gasoline would keep money here in america.
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 04:17 PM
|
#15
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,896
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
.... My concern is that what we have today is a country set up for cheap oil. People live a ways from their jobs ...
|
absolutely. Only raising the price or limiting supply is going to change that. And the taxes could be completely revenue neutral, so yes, the money would stay in the US, and we would overall save money.
But the general public and our politicians do not seem to want to look at it this way.
What to do?
-ERD50
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 05:10 PM
|
#16
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,305
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
When it gets expensive, people will be concerned about total consumption (mpg and person/miles driven). Until then, only taxes (which is a price increase) or rationing will change anything.
Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve. Let the SUV drivers fund us a bit if they choose, rather than having them drive prices up for everyone.
-ERD50
|
I wanted to believe that people would wise up without being manipulated (like taxing energy). But after decades of waiting I'm afraid ERD50 is right, it ain't gonna happen until the prices really start to hurt people (either taxes or crude prices, and the former benefits US more).
We bought our first hybrid a year ago, and it's been amazing...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 05:21 PM
|
#17
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 488
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Oil Jumps Above $100 on Refinery Outage: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
This is a bogus and recession causing number. Gasoline prices when the memorial day weekend hit will be in the high 3 dollar to low 4 dollar range. Crude is heading toward 125 sooner than 80 a barrel. No reason except OPEC is still calling the shots and americans are still using too much gasoline. Did you watch the Daytona 500?? The waste is just amaaaazing. Americans want to continue the happy motoring lifestyle we have grown up with with cheap oil. Well its not cheap anymore and well suvs are still roaming the streets that get 16 mpg!
|
They should change the Daytona 500 to the Daytona 5. The only interesting part is the last few laps. Actually moror racing is no more wasteful than any other sport. It's not the gas in the race cars, its the gas the 100,000 people use to get there.
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 06:17 PM
|
#18
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Personally, I'd like to see a *progressive* tax on energy (implementation would not be simple though). The more you use, the higher % you pay. That would benefit people who try to conserve.
|
And also rich people who live on 5th Avenue. Kind of hard on the poor guy who lives with his family out in the boonies in Ohio and drives 60 miles to his job at the Honda plant. And of course his wife drives somewhere in the opposite direction in her car to get to her job.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 06:20 PM
|
#19
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
I don't know about you but I would tax the begeesus out of gasoline and get americans into smaller cars and rebuild the railroads.
|
Railroads will carry more and more freight. 100 years from now they will still be carrying very few passengers.Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
02-19-2008, 06:21 PM
|
#20
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,146
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
I wanted to believe that people would wise up without being manipulated (like taxing energy). But after decades of waiting I'm afraid ERD50 is right, it ain't gonna happen until the prices really start to hurt people (either taxes or crude prices, and the former benefits US more).
We bought our first hybrid a year ago, and it's been amazing...
|
What kind of mileage are you really getting with your hybrid? I have a 4 cyl camry 05 that gets 32 in the city and 35 on the highway. Drive now about 12K a year. The car cost me 18K. So if I buy a hybrid and get 10 miles more per gallon I still lose money over 7 years compared to my 4 banger camry at 18 K Since the markup on say a Prius is 25K 7 K more for the car.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|