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Old 06-08-2010, 09:47 AM   #221
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Here's another question that the news hasn't answered for me:

How much oil can one of those skimmer boats collect, how do they collect it, and what do they do with it? From the images I've seen, it seems pretty futile.

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Old 06-08-2010, 10:11 AM   #222
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Good. Screw 'em. They've been lying, and I've been paying their share of taxes.
They might realize now (doubtful given the people interviewed in the article and their lifestyles, but maybe) they've pretty much been screwing themselves too for whatever reason--wait til they try to collect SS and find out they don't have enough work history.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:30 AM   #223
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T AL, did you really mean to say the Government does not waste money?
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #224
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No, only that they have to try harder not to. They can't say "Well, let's make sure this gets done even if we have to waste a little money" because if they do, there will be a "Fleecing of America" segment on it a year later. "Your tax dollars went to pay for a supertanker that did nothing more than float around the gulf for 6 months!"

In this situation BP can say "So what if we spend $1 million on a tanker that we end up not using." Even if NBC does a story on how BP wasted money, it would only make them look good. "BP wanted so much to help Americans, that it spent on $1 million on a tanker to have just in case!"
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:25 PM   #225
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No, only that they have to try harder not to. They (ERD50 clarifier:the government) can't say "Well, let's make sure this gets done even if we have to waste a little money" because if they do, there will be a "Fleecing of America" segment on it a year later. "Your tax dollars went to pay for a supertanker that did nothing more than float around the gulf for 6 months!"
I think they just call that 'stimulating the economy' and 'creating jobs' these days. 'Waste' is sooooo 'last century'.

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Old 06-08-2010, 02:09 PM   #226
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...which so far would be $3,000 per claim on average.
Let's see, 50 days is 7 weeks. That's about $400 per week. That is tiny. That might be reasonable for an individual crew on a small fishing boat or that resort dishwasher who is not called into work that someone mentioned but it comes nowhere close to real reimbursement.

BP spilled into the Gulf and caused this loss. They need to pay freely and then it is up to them to recover what was fraudulently obtained. Of course I realize that is difficult. But they caused immense damage and should not be allowed to demand proof of loss at this point.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:50 PM   #227
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Let's see, 50 days is 7 weeks. That's about $400 per week. That is tiny. That might be reasonable for an individual crew on a small fishing boat or that resort dishwasher who is not called into work that someone mentioned but it comes nowhere close to real reimbursement.

BP spilled into the Gulf and caused this loss. They need to pay freely and then it is up to them to recover what was fraudulently obtained. Of course I realize that is difficult. But they caused immense damage and should not be allowed to demand proof of loss at this point.
And I will disagree with you on that... I would think that anybody would want to have some kind of 'proof'.... if not, then I can put in a claim that I was going to be enjoying my summer vacation on that oily beach and the cost to move to someplace else cost me $1,000... pay up...

Now, we all know that this should not be paid at all... so paying it now and trying to get it back is stupid... because the cost of getting it back is a LOT more than what they paid...

I think there should be some more payments to legitimate claims... but a boat operator should not be able to say 'I rent my boat for $1,000 per day and I lost 50 days so far.... $50K'.... when if you look at their tax returns the past year or two and they have total rental income of $25K per year... nope, this is not something that people should be OVER compensated for either...
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:27 PM   #228
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And I will disagree with you on that...
BP is demanding that people with vacation homes rentals and small hotels that have lost bookings produce 5 years of tax returns and specific names and details of cancellations. There are many problems with this:
- A person's tax return is none of BP's business. Tax returns do nothing to prove this year's losses.
- Providing the information BP is demanding in some case is illegal (they want lots of details about the customer that violate's privacy laws)
- It does not account for lost bookings when people simply went elsewhere or decided not to visit the Gulf coast
- It adds additional delay and inconvenience to innocent victims while the guilty party (BP) sits on its cash and gets to decide people's fate.

I agree that paying up front and then getting the money back is difficult and costly. But so is rebuilding a business that BP has destroyed.
BP should be in no position to call the shots unless they are held accountable for additional damages resulting from their delay in payment.

The whole thing has been mishandled in my opinion. BP will end up putting hundreds or thousands of small businesses out of business. I am beginning to hope that BP is one of the companies liquidated.

Even the governments of several states are frustrated over BP's incompetence in paying out claims.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:38 PM   #229
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Here's another question that the news hasn't answered for me:

How much oil can one of those skimmer boats collect, how do they collect it, and what do they do with it? From the images I've seen, it seems pretty futile.

I had the same question so I searched. The answers are the Navy skimmers can handle up to 50400 gallons in 24 hours each. There are 21 of them. The ones Kevin Costner's company has can handle various amounts, up to 210,000 gallons per day. There are 4 of the big ones. I couldn't find figures for how much the converted shrimping vessels can handle. I figure it's probably because it depends on the size of the vessel and how large the oil absorbing booms are it is using.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:41 PM   #230
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BP is demanding that people with vacation homes rentals and small hotels that have lost bookings produce 5 years of tax returns and specific names and details of cancellations. There are many problems with this:
- A person's tax return is none of BP's business. Tax returns do nothing to prove this year's losses.
- Providing the information BP is demanding in some case is illegal (they want lots of details about the customer that violate's privacy laws)
- It does not account for lost bookings when people simply went elsewhere or decided not to visit the Gulf coast
- It adds additional delay and inconvenience to innocent victims while the guilty party (BP) sits on its cash and gets to decide people's fate.
Actually, I think, if BP were to be sued their lawyers would demand much of this information to prove the loss.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:24 PM   #231
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Actually, I think, if BP were to be sued their lawyers would demand much of this information to prove the loss.
Undoubtedly. But they can demand all they want. A judge would have to agree and then order the documentation turned over. That would both exonerate the small businesses from civil claims from their customers for releasing personal information and it would expose BP to liability if they mishandle the tax returns and other documents. Right now BP is making the rules with absolutely no authority.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:30 PM   #232
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Just north of Oakland CA, lies Richmond, CA. It is known amongst other things for it's oil refineries. Now every once in awhile there is some sort of accident at one of these. This occurred when I was working in SF. At that time I had an employee that lived in the Richmond area. She put in a 'Health claim' for her son, and he was awarded money I think $250 a month for some period of time. Only thing wrong with this story is he was in LA at the time of the leak. Chevron pays through the nose when ever there is a leak! It is cheaper to pay than investigate each claim and suffer the PR catastrophe.

I think BP should pay reasonable claims, however, if you want their money you should be willing to provide reasonable documentation. My guess the courts will decide the cases that are reasonable.

What kind of authority would you be looking for. It is BP's money and someone is making a claim against it. Seems to me they have every right to ask for what ever they want. If the claimant thinks he is getting screwed then the can go to court.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #233
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Undoubtedly. But they can demand all they want. A judge would have to agree and then order the documentation turned over. That would both exonerate the small businesses from civil claims from their customers for releasing personal information and it would expose BP to liability if they mishandle the tax returns and other documents. Right now BP is making the rules with absolutely no authority.
are you suggesting BP has no authority to make decisions about how it operates it's own business? if the people down there don't like how they are being compensated, they can take legal action. i don't feel anything BP is doing in the compensation arena is wrong, legally or morally. In fact, they could just wait for people to sue them and put them out for years. futhermore, if BP has no hope of recovery, what would motivate them to continue remediating this incident? kind of like filing bankruptcy...

you should also hop in the car and take a little ride down the bayou. my guess would be at this point in time, most of the hotels are making more than usual b/c of all the media. you must be picturing some kind of paradise, but when i lived in new orleans (and worked offshore), anyone who wanted to go the beach didn't go to grand isle, they went to florida.

while acknowledging tourism outside of LA is being hurt, what's wrong with providing a little paperwork? what else are they doing besides anticipating oil making landfall?
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:40 PM   #234
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anyone who wanted to go the beach didn't go to grand isle, they went to florida.
I've been curious about this. How are the beaches different? Whiter sand? Bluer water? Are they naturally different, or is it related to industry near the Mississippi?
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:25 PM   #235
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I've been curious about this. How are the beaches different? Whiter sand? Bluer water? Are they naturally different, or is it related to industry near the Mississippi?

The Mississippi Sound is dirty from the silt from the Mississippi river (from what I've been told). I can definitely say the beaches in Mississippi are not as nice as those in Florida, but they are better than the extensive one in Arizona.
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:43 PM   #236
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I've been curious about this. How are the beaches different? Whiter sand? Bluer water? Are they naturally different, or is it related to industry near the Mississippi?
one is swamp land, the other is...a beach. one has brown silty water from swamp and the mississippi (as pointed out) the other is clear water. one is a major port for industry, the other is for tourism. this might be hard to fathom, but it's worse than galveston. not to mention the butt end of the mississippi has worse than just silt.

another thought while pedaling home from work...with the secretary of the interior applying his boot to necks and the president kicking ass, who has anything to worry about?
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:51 PM   #237
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are you suggesting BP has no authority to make decisions about how it operates it's own business? if the people down there don't like how they are being compensated, they can take legal action...
When a person/company commits a crime they lose their freedom. If an individual had caused such a huge disaster they'd be arrested and their assets would be seized by now. So yes, I do think that BP should not have the authority to make decisions about how it operates it's own business at this point. Once they clean up the mess and serve their sentence then they should be set free. Of course they have not been convicted yet but we ought to subject them to the equivalent of arrest and asset seizure just like we would do to an individual. We can put their assets to work cleaning up the mess.
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:59 PM   #238
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When a person/company commits a crime they lose their freedom. If an individual had caused such a huge disaster they'd be arrested and their assets would be seized by now. So yes, I do think that BP should not have the authority to make decisions about how it operates it's own business at this point. Once they clean up the mess and serve their sentence then they should be set free. Of course they have not been convicted yet but we ought to subject them to the equivalent of arrest and asset seizure just like we would do to an individual. We can put their assets to work cleaning up the mess.
The criminal investigation hasn't even been completed yet. We can't do anything until a trial is held. If BP is found guilty of a criminal act, then the criminal penalties can be applied, but not before. If BP is found to have complied with all criminal laws on the books then no criminal penalty can be levied. All of the money being paid out now is not a result of a criminal act it is a result civil liability. You do realize they are paying for the clean up, right? The government submitted a bill recently for reimbursement of everything already provided. BP is paying the private companies for their services on a pay as you go basis. When the job is done so is the paycheck from BP. They are not being the deadbeats people are accusing them of being.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:04 PM   #239
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When a person/company commits a crime they lose their freedom. If an individual had caused such a huge disaster they'd be arrested and their assets would be seized by now. So yes, I do think that BP should not have the authority to make decisions about how it operates it's own business at this point. Once they clean up the mess and serve their sentence then they should be set free. Of course they have not been convicted yet but we ought to subject them to the equivalent of arrest and asset seizure just like we would do to an individual. We can put their assets to work cleaning up the mess.
so are you suggesting we throw them all in jail and have the gov't work it out? or do we need their expertise? you could seize all my assets, but when it comes to making me work, i'd let you pull the trigger if i had no livelihood left.

ironically, the fed gov't doesn't know their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to this stuff.

and i agree with L-R. the investigation has yet to be done.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:40 PM   #240
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Heck, this is big OIL, they don't really have any constitutional rights!
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