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Old 05-30-2010, 08:17 AM   #61
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Yep, I heard about tons of the less toxic dispersant sitting in Houston as well.
However, what I would love to hear is the reasons WHY this stuff hasn't been used sooner?
That is what I am ticket off about the media. Where are the facts, the investigation?
Is there a problem, or testing Costner's machine needs to go through.
If the scimmers were in place, why were they not used?
I am sick of the media yelling insults and wrapping up the reasons as simply 'red tape'.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:18 AM   #62
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I'm starting to lose hope....
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:35 AM   #63
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BP moves on to other options. LMRP Cap



LMRP Cap animation is shown in the last minute of the clip below.


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Old 05-30-2010, 04:21 PM   #64
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What is modest? 1 hour of training, 3, 8?
How many trainers and where do you train them?
Don't forget any protective gear.
While I agree stopping the leak is more difficult, I don't think the logistics of and cleaning of the beaches is as simple as you seem to think.
And they are, and continue to hire people.
Do you know how many people?
I honestly don't know, which is why I ask.

I have more disdain for the people who USE the oil (myself included), making it profitable for oil companies to do things that result in accidents like this.
Once I have the facts about how easy or difficult the cleanup process is, and what they are already doing, then I might have more disdain for BP and the Government.
I am judging this by the media interview (and since this is both Fox and CNN likely to be not entirely political ) of local residents and fisherman who said they attended 1 day oil clean up classes a few weeks, but were not called up even though oil has obviously been found on the beaches.

Looking at the official DeepHorizon response website. Today's operations claim 1400 boats and 20,000 personal, but no mention of any beach clean up. Other than President photo op I haven't seen picture of folks cleaning up the beaches. James Carville claims it isn't happening.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:39 PM   #65
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failure of both to clean up the beaches and marshes as soon as the oil hits the shore.
OTOH, there are many days worth of oil still coming. If every day you clean up that day's deposits, then the next day you have to start over. I admit I know nothing about it, but I'd guess that a blob three inches high isn't that much harder to clean up than a blob that is one inch high. IOW, there might be some logic in waiting.

Anyone seen the video of people leaning over the edges of small boats wiping the reeds with paper towels? It seems totally futile.

And instead of people with shovels, couldn't some kind of backloader skim off the top layer of sand faster?
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:53 PM   #66
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I am judging this by the media interview (and since this is both Fox and CNN likely to be not entirely political ) of local residents and fisherman who said they attended 1 day oil clean up classes a few weeks, but were not called up even though oil has obviously been found on the beaches.

Looking at the official DeepHorizon response website. Today's operations claim 1400 boats and 20,000 personal, but no mention of any beach clean up. Other than President photo op I haven't seen picture of folks cleaning up the beaches. James Carville claims it isn't happening.
It's not political slant I have an issue with, it is media 'sensationalism' at the detriment of investigative reporting.

CNN and NPR reported specifically that people were out cleaning the day After the president's visit.
Al's point is also worth considering.
Listen, I am not saying everything is being done perfectly, or even adequately.
What I am saying is the media is letting us down by not digging into this and instead just hyperventilating.
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Old 05-30-2010, 05:07 PM   #67
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I'm curious about why the blowout preventer didn't work. I haven't heard any details on how it failed or why. Has a blowout preventer ever actually been triggered by an event before? Do they actually really work at all? Are all drilling rigs in danger of the same thing happening?

These are questions I don't hear being asked or answered.
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Old 05-30-2010, 05:12 PM   #68
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Has a blowout preventer ever actually been triggered by an event before? Do they actually really work at all?
Googling "blowout preventer history" found this:

AP INVESTIGATION: Oil rig blowout preventers have long history of breaking down at other wells
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:30 PM   #69
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OTOH, there are many days worth of oil still coming. If every day you clean up that day's deposits, then the next day you have to start over. I admit I know nothing about it, but I'd guess that a blob three inches high isn't that much harder to clean up than a blob that is one inch high. IOW, there might be some logic in waiting.

Anyone seen the video of people leaning over the edges of small boats wiping the reeds with paper towels? It seems totally futile.

And instead of people with shovels, couldn't some kind of backloader skim off the top layer of sand faster?
I think that for the most part the oil does NOT arrive in a steady fashion but rather in discreet waves. So that beach A may get most of 2 hours of oil (less the part which ends up being knocked out by the surface and subsurface dispersants) and the next 4 hours worth oil ends up in a marsh 100 miles away. Beach A may not get anymore oil for days or even weeks.

Certainly if you want to be most minimize the cost of clean up you should wait until Sept or Oct when the well is plugged. Heck at the point might as well wait until after hurricane season has passed and mother nature has distributed and diluted the oil over the entire region .

I agree futile efforts like using a paper towels are just that futile.


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It's not political slant I have an issue with, it is media 'sensationalism' at the detriment of investigative reporting.

CNN and NPR reported specifically that people were out cleaning the day After the president's visit.
Al's point is also worth considering.
Listen, I am not saying everything is being done perfectly, or even adequately.
What I am saying is the media is letting us down by not digging into this and instead just hyperventilating.
I think the media's job is to sensationalize it, it is after all the worse oil spill in US history. I am not sure what exactly the media is or isn't doing as far as digging. If you are telling me that there is actually lots of action going on to clean up the spill and the media isn't telling me focus instead on failure. That is fair criticism, but honestly I've looked for statistic or even pictures showing folks cleaning up beaches and marshes and really have not found them.

I have seen Gov Jindal put out some very specific requests. "We want to build 100 miles of sand berms, the Army Corp approved 40 miles, but BP is only going to fund 2 miles." I wanted 16,000 feet booms of deployed here. The Coast Guard approved 8,000 since they don't have 16,000 feet around, but the contractors working for BP are not authorized to deploy it unless the oil is closer. The oil is already here"

Regarding the sand berms, the media questioned Gov. Jindal on the effectiveness about the berms. This seems like a legitimate function for the media. Gov. Jindal strikes me as guy who wants to do something even if it is not optimal. It is worthwhile to ask in a crisis are we doing something to make the situation worse.

Still in general, I get the distinct impression that situation in the Gulf right now where lots of people can say NO you can't do (or we won't pay for) X and almost nobody is in a situation to say YES. This is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:22 PM   #70
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I wonder if this spill is wasting more oil than the time Saddam torched all those oil wells in Kuwait.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:33 PM   #71
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I wonder if this spill is wasting more oil than the time Saddam torched all those oil wells in Kuwait.
Dunno, but I'm getting majorly bummed out about this. Not about wasted oil so much but the harm done to such a special place. I only hope the Big Easy isn't hurt. Those folks have suffered enough already.
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:43 AM   #72
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I wonder if this spill is wasting more oil than the time Saddam torched all those oil wells in Kuwait.

I doubt that this one even comes close... he blew up hundreds (maybe thousands).... but it was spilled in the sand over there... so who cares...


I still could not figure putting mud down the pipe was supposed to stop it... they say it has worked before... but think about it... turn on a fire hose.. now try and put a smaller hose inside and turn it on... do you really think the big hose will stop I wished it had worked...


As to the other comments about 'doing something'.... I had heard from the ex CEO of Shell saying to get super tankers out there ... they can suck up a LOT and then they can separate the water and keep the oil... this sounded great... until they asked one of the top BP people.... their answer (which sounds reasonable)... we just don't know where the oil is going to reach the surface... it can be anywhere... the tankers can contain oil that is more local... like a leaking ship or a leak at the top of the gulf...

Yes, the media is hyping this up... getting people to yell and scream... but as the Coast Guard guy said... something like 'what would we replace it with?'....

it does seem like BP is doing the best that can be expected.... sure, lots of blame to go around.... but that does not stop the leak...
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:34 AM   #73
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American scientists have finally developed a car that runs on water!

Sadly, so far it only works with the water from the Gulf of Mexico.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:22 AM   #74
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Dunno, but I'm getting majorly bummed out about this. Not about wasted oil so much but the harm done to such a special place.
On the ABC Evening News last night, the question was asked if this spill would have an effect on prices at the gas pump. Their statement (so don't nail me for evidence) was "No" because so far the oil that has escaped from that spill is only equal to the amount the U.S. uses in about five minutes. If true, your concerns -- about environmental damage -- are prioritized correctly.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:38 AM   #75
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On the ABC Evening News last night, the question was asked if this spill would have an effect on prices at the gas pump. Their statement (so don't nail me for evidence) was "No" because so far the oil that has escaped from that spill is only equal to the amount the U.S. uses in about five minutes. If true, your concerns -- about environmental damage -- are prioritized correctly.
I don't see how just the spill could cause prices to go up, since it wasn't a producing well, yet. The cost of clean up I think will make it difficult for BP to over come. Good thing they have had banner years the last few. Of course the price of oil is skittish at best, so it is a reasonable concern.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:52 AM   #76
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The US Government will end up owning BP. Or at least be its largest debt holder (in fines and other costs).

Once the clean up is done... the gummit should take possession and sell it off (to recover legal fines) if BP cannot pay up every red cent.

BP Risks Losing Huge U.S. Contracts, Getting Big Fines - WSJ.com
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:39 AM   #77
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I disagree. So far the casts for BP have probably come out of their lunch room cash jar.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:28 AM   #78
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There's so much oil, and yet so far, the effects have been minimal. A few videos of marshes and beaches with a small amount of oil. If all of those huge underwater "plumes" they talk about start making landfall somewhere, it could be more sensational. I can certainly imagine oil globules on Florida beaches for the next twenty years. Who knows?
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:03 AM   #79
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Original news reports and press releases of Deepwater Horizon.
Original Reporting of Deepwater Horizon Well and Tiber Oil Field Discovery
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:45 AM   #80
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Given the circumstances and the unknowns they are dealing with I think BP as well as the US government are doing the best they can under very trying and changing conditions. The news media wants everything in constants, and black and white, in this case there are way too many shades of grey. In some respects I think the media is not objectively reporting and raising expectations, case in point. The BP people said the chances of the "top kill" procedure working were 60-70%, actually not much better than the flip of a coin. After three days of trying and deciding on another course of action, all you see is "BP fails" in the media.

In my humble opinion the press almost delights in reporting bad news.
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