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Old 07-08-2010, 03:07 PM   #61
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Sorry I wasn't more clear. Here's where I'm going:That A-Whale ship is not going to do much at all, compared with what the press is saying, and a statement like "this ship can remove almost as much oil in a day as has been removed in total -- roughly 500,000 barrels [21 million gallons] of oily water per day..." gives a false sense of manageability to the entire mess.

That's all I'm saying. Joe Sixpack is saying "Gee, what a screw-up. If they'd put that ship out there 60 days ago, we'd have this pretty much cleaned up."

Yes, I'm now convinced: most of the water is on the surface. But the vastness of the gulf and the area of the oil spill totally dwarfs those pathetic little ports on the front of that supertanker. Just picture a surface with waves as you drive this humongous ship through the water. How often will that top inch of water be right at the level of the ports?

Picture those guys with the paper towels wiping the reeds. That's not helping, it's just making people feel good.

Again, the point: This isn't as manageable as the press may make it appear.
If that is the case... then Joe Sixpack is not paying attention..

From what I heard on the news.... the A Whale was not in existence when the well blew... the owner of the vessel had the modifications done AFTER it blew... I assume it took awhile to get them done...

At least the company was thinking outside the box... and we do not know if it wil work or not...

But... I would think that it could suck in a lot of oil and water... at 21 million gallons of SOMETHING a day... that would add up to 210,000 gallons of oil if the concentration was 100 to 1...

They are also not saying it will clean everything up.... but it might make a dent..

As people here in Texas know... tar balls are a way of life...
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:25 PM   #62
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Joe Sixpack is not paying attention.
That's my assumption.

I'm all for trying it also, and it might just work. Probably not as well as the x skimmers that would cost the same amount (if available), but who knows?

I guess it's my cynicism, but here's a scenario I have in my mind: Some businessman/ship owner hears about the oil spill and sees an opportunity to profit. He cuts some holes in the pointy end of his supertanker, puts in an oil separator, and offers his services. He knows it doesn't have to actually work, and there's no time for testing. Supply and demand is on his side (he's got the only one in the world). The public will demand that he be hired.

Or this:
The vessel, completed earlier this year, has had trouble lining up business. Bockmann suggests that the marketing savvy CEO may be using this as an advertising ploy.
And Michelle Wiese Bockmann, markets editor for the seafaring chronicle Lloyd’s List, speculated that TMT CEO Su, who owns 51 percent of the privately held company, may be using the attention focused on the BP disaster to publicize his new vessel.
“He likes to have an air of mystery and be seen as very influential,” she said. “And when he wants publicity, he’s very good at getting it.”

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Old 07-08-2010, 08:00 PM   #63
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I guess it's my cynicism, but here's a scenario I have in my mind: Some businessman/ship owner hears about the oil spill and sees an opportunity to profit. ...
I've thought about that, it could well be the case. But who knows? One way to find out if it works - try it!

What sets off the alarms, lights, bells, & whistles of my cynicism detector is the idea that some Govt agency is/was holding it up over the legal issue of emitting water with more than 15ppM of oil in it. That, and the Jones Act issues with other vessels.

-ERD50
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:18 PM   #64
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...( and ronocnikral seems skeptical of those descriptions, and he seems well informed on these matters)...
only on the internet am i well informed...

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I've thought about that, it could well be the case. But who knows? One way to find out if it works - try it!
the only downside i could come up with is if the ship is out there skimming, starts on fire, sinks and releases all the oil + their diesel + more deaths.

but, if i were king for a day...that ship would be skimming even if it looked like "the perfect storm." who cares, BP's paying for everything else, might as well through another tanker or two on the bill as well...who cares if it only picks up 1% water, pump out the water and fill em up again. horribly inefficient, but so is sitting at the dock.

the relief wells can't get here soon enough.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:04 AM   #65
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That's my assumption.

I'm all for trying it also, and it might just work. Probably not as well as the x skimmers that would cost the same amount (if available), but who knows?

I guess it's my cynicism, but here's a scenario I have in my mind: Some businessman/ship owner hears about the oil spill and sees an opportunity to profit. He cuts some holes in the pointy end of his supertanker, puts in an oil separator, and offers his services. He knows it doesn't have to actually work, and there's no time for testing. Supply and demand is on his side (he's got the only one in the world). The public will demand that he be hired.

Or this:
The vessel, completed earlier this year, has had trouble lining up business. Bockmann suggests that the marketing savvy CEO may be using this as an advertising ploy.
And Michelle Wiese Bockmann, markets editor for the seafaring chronicle Lloyd’s List, speculated that TMT CEO Su, who owns 51 percent of the privately held company, may be using the attention focused on the BP disaster to publicize his new vessel.
“He likes to have an air of mystery and be seen as very influential,” she said. “And when he wants publicity, he’s very good at getting it.”

Have not read the articles.... must get some sleep

But... if I were BP... I would be paying anybody based on the number of barrels they picked up (for skimming operations... other cleanup is different).... so if A Whale is doing what they say... they make a mint... if it is burning more oil than it picks up... it loses...

I agree with your cynicism..
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:55 AM   #66
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Have not read the articles.... must get some sleep

But... if I were BP... I would be paying anybody based on the number of barrels they picked up (for skimming operations... other cleanup is different).... so if A Whale is doing what they say... they make a mint... if it is burning more oil than it picks up... it loses...

I agree with your cynicism..
too bad it isn't BP's decision, b/c they would probably have that silly thing out there working.

OTOH, I agree they probably shouldn't be lending credence to every little idea out there. If they listened to kevin costner we would all be peeing in one end of some contraption and drinking whatever comes out the other. ooohhhh...or was that just a movie thing?

but, i think the skimming idea shows effort and at least gets something done, regardless of how efficient it is.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:55 AM   #67
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First rig sails away over deep-water drilling ban | Business | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

too much uncertainty...we need to get this thing licked...
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:23 AM   #68
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That rig will never come back. I heard last night that there are about 100 people that work on a rig, and the are on three weeks and off three weeks, so 200 workers. There are another 500 to 1,000 that support a rig. So there goes a 1,000 jobs. With that the ripple effect through the community that support those folks. This could get real bad for Texas and Louisiana in a hurry!
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:22 PM   #69
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I've been watching the new cap operation off and on. In this picture:



Is that the new cap on the right there?
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:46 PM   #70
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Al, I'm not sure. Here is a quote from an MSNBC article on the new cap:

Quote:
Now that the top flange is removed, BP is considering whether it needs to bind together two sections of drill pipe that are in the gushing well head. The step following that involves lowering a 12-foot-long piece of equipment called a flange transition spool onto the well head and bolting it to the bottom flange still in place.

After the spool is bolted in place, the new cap — called a capping stack or "Top Hat 10" — can be mounted. The equipment, weighing some 150,000 pounds, is designed to fully seal the leak and provide connections for new vessels on the surface to collect oil. The cap has valves that can restrict the flow of oil and shut it in, if it can withstand the enormous pressure.
Maybe what is pictured is the "flange transition spool"?
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:09 PM   #71
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Maybe.

Let's say they get that cap on, and all the oil is captured. In that case, are they going to be less eager to kill the well? A lot of money will be flowing up that pipe. But they don't want to take any chances, so I guess they'll kill it as soon as possible.
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:14 PM   #72
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Here's a BP presentation on the installation of the new cap: Sealing Cap Installation Animation with Kent Wells - 9 July 2010
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:18 PM   #73
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Thanks, REW. If I'm correctly interpreting what I'm seeing, it looks like they have the transition spool on there, and are tightening the bolts.

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Old 07-12-2010, 12:47 AM   #74
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That rig will never come back. I heard last night that there are about 100 people that work on a rig, and the are on three weeks and off three weeks, so 200 workers. There are another 500 to 1,000 that support a rig. So there goes a 1,000 jobs. With that the ripple effect through the community that support those folks. This could get real bad for Texas and Louisiana in a hurry!
I actually interviewed to be a controller for a drilling ship... I had not worked in O&G... so did not get the job... but I did learn a thing or two while researching...

The ship had workers from India doing the drilling... so the crew would fly into the US and take a boat to the ship... the other crew would fly home... they worked (IIRC, 4 weeks on, 4 off)... so maybe not as many jobs lost as you might think on the rig... the real loss is the supplies and boats that take the crews etc. out to the rigs... they have to be local... and if a crew is on a rig... more than likely they will be working it when it moves...

STILL, not a good thing if they all leave...
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:22 AM   #75
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As with life, it depends. My next door neighbor's kid works a drilling rig. We do not live in India, but Texas, some may get confused, and he works 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. That is why anecdotal evidence, like wasthat used on this board to support many points of view, is often is worthless. Drilling rigs leaving U.S. waters for foreign ports will hurt the U.S. economy, and especially the economy of the gulf states that depend on them, and, IMHO, it is totally unnecessary.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:36 AM   #76
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Sucking up an oil slick is hard enough but imagine how hard it is after showering hundreds of thousands of gallons of chemical dispersants on top. Kinda like picking up the feathers on a windy day after the pillow bursts.

Dispersants in spill response | Gulf of Mexico response | BP
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:25 AM   #77
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As with life, it depends. My next door neighbor's kid works a drilling rig. We do not live in India, but Texas, some may get confused, and he works 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. That is why anecdotal evidence, like wasthat used on this board to support many points of view, is often is worthless. Drilling rigs leaving U.S. waters for foreign ports will hurt the U.S. economy, and especially the economy of the gulf states that depend on them, and, IMHO, it is totally unnecessary.
Oh, no Rustic, you have it all wrong, wrong, wrong. Exporting high-paying US jobs overseas helps our country. Losing our manufacturing base actually strengthens our economy. Having those rigs move out of US waters will lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Losing energy jobs will decrease unemployment. Imports make us stronger, exports make us weaker. Industry holds us back, Government moves us forward. We need to complete the transition to a sparkling clean green economy where we do nothing more than sell soyburgers, software, and adjustable-rate mortgages to one another, but knuckle-dragging old-school thinking is holding us back. Please get with the program, comrade.
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:11 AM   #78
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My bad
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:39 AM   #79
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As with life, it depends. My next door neighbor's kid works a drilling rig. We do not live in India, but Texas, some may get confused, and he works 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. That is why anecdotal evidence, like wasthat used on this board to support many points of view, is often is worthless. Drilling rigs leaving U.S. waters for foreign ports will hurt the U.S. economy, and especially the economy of the gulf states that depend on them, and, IMHO, it is totally unnecessary.

I didn't say all are from India... just that the one that I had interviewed did.. I agree that them leaving will hurt.... but then again, this one had just come over from Africa... they can move around and at some point and time will probably move back.. it is just when and how many people have to find something else to do...
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #80
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it is just when and how many people have to find something else to do...
10% of our workforce is already trying to find something else to do... with 400,000 census workers soon to be added to their ranks. (Not counting those who are being paid to pick up tarballs or scrub pelicans, of course.) Now is not the time to start shutting down anything, IMO- the social costs need to be weighed along with the environmental risks.
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