Old Boss won't leave me alone

[DFA]

Here it is:

CEO from old company that is going out of business and he is no longer at the company and is trying to start a new business keeps calling me for help with minor IT email and cell phone issues. I have helped, but now he sent me an email to have me come out to a three person office to do some server email setups and configuration. He has gotten several hours of free help from me already because I have an issue saying "No" to people I know that need help with IT stuff (it is different with money, I can say "No" there).

Problems are there is no business to bill since they are just in the discovery phase. The people in this group were the CEO, Chairman of the Board, and VP of business development at the old business and I was paid pretty well when I was laid off and they kept me on 1099 income for the last year and paid a years' severance, bonus, and vacation which provided the last bit to ER.

Do I owe them some help getting started in this new business, should I just say "No thanks" (Hard to do for me)? No discussions of $$s have come up, they may think I would do all this for nothing, just want some advise on how you would handle this situation.

Thanks in advance.

[rodi]

I would specifically ask for a scope of work. If the scope is more than an hour or two, explain that you'd need to be compensated for that size of job.

Even if you're doing it for free - knowing how much work is expected is reasonable for time planning.

[brewer12345]

Time is money. If you can say no on money, you can say no on time.

[pb4uski]

I think it is a judgement call depending on how much time will be involved and your relationship with these guys.

Even if there is "no business to bill" they much be paying their bills for other things somehow so they can pay you as well or at least have an IOU when income does start rolling in. Alternatively, if you have the interest and like these guys, perhaps you can moonlight as their IT consultant in exchange for an equity stake, pay or a combination thereof.

[Car-Guy]

They laid you off?

Business is business. If they don't have a business to bill yet, then cash works. IMHO, you've already given them enough help over the phone and email. Asking you to come in and help crosses the line, big time. Just quote them an hourly rate equivalent to what you made when you worked for them. (if you really want to get that involved - I was in IT, remember, it never ends and can be a 7 by 24 job)

[Senator]

Call him once. Tell him you are raking leaves this weekend, and wonder if he can come by to help.

[DFA]

Thanks you all for the advice, I guess I just need to see what they want and get cash, why is it that if you are an IT person everyone wants help for free, does this happen a lot with other professions?

[Jay_Gatsby]

Agree with time = money. I'm sure these folks have socked away plenty of money and have plans to "invest" in their new venture. Accordingly, you should be part of that investment. Perhaps if they don't have cash (more likely, they're unwilling to part with it), you can take your payment in equity in the new venture (which doesn't seem to be an option, since they're just in the discovery phase, which does seem a bit weird that they would need an IT network if they're still exploring).

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFA Thanks you all for the advice, I guess I just need to see what they want and get cash, why is it that if you are an IT person everyone wants help for free, does this happen a lot with other professions?

Yes. I still have old clients from my private practice days (I'm in house counsel now) seeking legal advice. It's always a "quick question". I can demur simply because while I'm still admitted to the bar, I can't render legal advice to private clients without a client trust account, etc.... Some come back with assurances that the advice will be "off the record," but when it comes to malpractice lawsuits, nothing is off the record.

[target2019]

DFA,
Sounds like you owed them some goodwill based on your exit from the previous job.
What you need to do is set a limit, and see if you've met that. If so, then time to talk with the guy and establish a billing rate.
If you don't want to do this, then put it in writing and thank him for all past good.

[braumeister]

I was in a very similar situation once.
I sent a consulting contract showing all my conditions, plus a rather high hourly rate. In the email, I said I'd be ready to start as soon as I got a signed copy back. Much to my surprise, they happily signed it and paid my fee.

[easysurfer]

Are you FIRE'd for good?

If so, when you talk to him ask him what part of retirement does he not understand.

If that doesn't work, I like the raking leaves example that Senator gave.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFA Thanks you all for the advice, I guess I just need to see what they want and get cash, why is it that if you are an IT person everyone wants help for free, does this happen a lot with other professions?

Have you ever had a pick up truck? What happens when a friend wants to move? Just like IT skills, you have something they want. (Pick-up truck for a friend, ok a "thank-you" will do - professional skills for a business, now that cost money)

I'm sure there are other professions that run into the problem. e.g. Lawyers, mechanics, etc, etc, etc

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFA Thanks you all for the advice, I guess I just need to see what they want and get cash, why is it that if you are an IT person everyone wants help for free, does this happen a lot with other professions?

Starting a new business is really hard, not only because it burns through cash but also because there are so many things that need to get done.

It could be they aren't looking for free service, just getting service from someone they are sure they can rely on. Putting a price to your service will help regulate it and help them choose just how much they need.

[DFA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby Perhaps if they don't have cash (more likely, they're unwilling to part with it), you can take your payment in equity in the new venture (which doesn't seem to be an option, since they're just in the discovery phase, which does seem a bit weird that they would need an IT network if they're still exploring).

The Chairman of the Board, has other businesses he is involved with and only has a small office for him self and one server for his email and file storage, it sits in a closet on a table. Just basic network in place, but the other two want to use it now, could end up getting bigger. The server was setup by another person that is no longer involved in the system.

[Bestwifeever]

Next time he calls, tell him you need your role clarified before going forward (if you want to). Include compensation in that clarification. If you are willing to do the work without immediate compensation, you are risking never being paid, which is okay, but if the new company catches fire and is hugely profitable, your risk of waiting for $$ should be rewarded.

Remember your severance benefits did not come out of his pocket even though he might have gone to bat for them, so you don't really owe him.

[Revlefty]

How you say something is very important. When he asks, say, "It sounds to me like you want me to come and work for you again." If he says, "No. I just want you to help us..." then you can simply tell him, "I'm retired." How you make demands and how you word things is all part of people skills.

[FUEGO]

I'd probably tell them how I'm pretty busy these days with whatever it is that you do to fill your waking hours. And you're not really looking for a side hustle income, but could be persuaded if they really want to have you consulting for them on an hourly basis.

I'd probably give them a few hours for free because it sounds like they treated you very generously at the previous employer. And it sounds like you are good at the IT part of things, so maybe you'll get some fulfillment from a job well done?

[MooreBonds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFA The Chairman of the Board, has other businesses he is involved with and only has a small office for him self and one server for his email and file storage, it sits in a closet on a table. Just basic network in place, but the other two want to use it now, could end up getting bigger. The server was setup by another person that is no longer involved in the system.

...So, in other words, someone else set it up, and isn't interested in coming back to change it for free. So he contacts the next person to try and get a freebie.

While there may have been some good things he did for you at your previous company, is your severance that unusual? Would other people have been expected to receive your severance to that level? It sounds like you've already given him some free time. Work up how many hours you've already given him for free and remind him of that. Your independent contractor hourly rate is at least 50% higher than your salary hourly rate - and that would just be a cheap rate for friends and family! If you were billing yourself out at a competitive rate, you should expect MUCH more, since you would be hourly on an as-needed basis (which needs higher rates to compensate for the uneven workload), as well as your FICA taxes, retirement plan, health insurance, vacation time, holidays, mileage on your vehicle, etc., etc.

Simply tell him that you appreciated working with him at the previous company, and you were willing to give him some free time before, but you'd need to be compensated fairly for your time, and you feel a fair, competitive rate for your as-needed services would be $X. If you don't stand up now, he WILL contact you to expand the network again. GUARANTEED. And that's ignoring the inevitable "Hey, my computer is doing XYZ.....umm, can you come and fix it for me?" calls.

As a comparison, find the Geek Squad rates, or some other company that does what you do to see what they would charge for as-needed IT services. Don't forget things like trip charges, "4 hour minimum" (or other minimums), etc.

If you have issues saying "no", then try sending him an e-mail with the summaries and a letter with your hourly rates. That might be easier for you to bring it up....but stand firm if/when he calls you to discuss it.

[rodi]

DFA - I think every profession has folks asking for freebies. My husband gets asked for free architectural advice all the time. If it's a close friend - he'll do quick sketches (not CAD) to help them figure out a solution they can take to their builder/contractor. If it's not a close friend he just says he doesn't want to risk liability by giving advice outside his employers liability insurance... they can set up an inquiry with his employer. That shuts them up. For me - after 20 years in the cable industry I'm asked how to configure tv/stereo/home theater stuff by folks. (Which is not directly my expertise but I can do reasonably well.) Again - close friends, no problem... acquaintances... not so much.

How close are you to these guys? Do you exchange Holiday cards? Do you go for beers with them? Have they ever had you over to their house for dinner, or vice versa?