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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 03:30 PM   #21
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by youbet
Since it is not required to show registration ID, and you are not supposed to ask for it, how is it that you have seen who shows up at the polls without it?
That's a good question. But it is really simple. A large number of voters walk up to the first table at the polling place going through their wallet or purse and saying, "I don't have my voter registration card with me, can I still vote?". That question gets asked so many times during the day that poll workers sometimes begin to greet voters by telling them they do not need a voter's registraion card to vote. Another large group of voter's offer an ID when asked their name and address rather than simply say it. Often they show a driver's license and offer the explanation that they don't have their voter registration card with them.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 03:39 PM   #22
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Re: One of the sleaziest

Every time we vote my husband reminds me that I don't need to bring my voter registration card, but every year I'm skeptical and dig it up (from within my passport-) bring it anyway! Since my mother moved next door, and our last names are the same (I didn't change mine) and first names are very similar, and her street address is only different by the final digit, I now need to be sure that they cross out the right name when I vote.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 04:02 PM   #23
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Re: One of the sleaziest

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
That's a good question. But it is really simple. A large number of voters walk up to the first table at the polling place going through their wallet or purse and saying, "I don't have my voter registration card with me, can I still vote?". That question gets asked so many times during the day that poll workers sometimes begin to greet voters by telling them they do not need a voter's registraion card to vote. Another large group of voter's offer an ID when asked their name and address rather than simply say it. Often they show a driver's license and offer the explanation that they don't have their voter registration card with them.
OK. I took your original statement to mean that you saw everyone who showed up at the polling place without their voter registration. Actually, you're saying you've seen a sample of the folks who show up without their voter registration; namely those who voluntarily self-identify although not required to do so.

As I said, I never bring any ID whatsoever into the polling place. Appropriately, I've never been challenged or, for that matter, even asked for ID. That's the law. And, BTW, we don't have to vote at our neighborhood polling place and I don't. For convenience, we can vote at any polling place in the county. For example, near our place of employment or favorite pub.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 05:12 PM   #24
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by youbet
. . . And, BTW, we don't have to vote at our neighborhood polling place and I don't. For convenience, we can vote at any polling place in the county. For example, near our place of employment or favorite pub.
Some states allow this, but Arizona does not. The laws about ID and getting to vote a provisional if you show up are federal. There will be slight differences in the way that states comply with the federal voting laws, but after the 2000 voting fiasco the federal laws got more stringent and specific. So now every state has to meet certain minimum requirements, and voting procedures from state to state are more similar than they used to be.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 07:29 PM   #25
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I prefer:

Dear Evangelical Xtian:

Dr. Dobson and Rev. Falwell have decided that GWB and "Dick" Cheney are evil. That being the case, please refrain from voting next month.

Yours in Jeebus,

Rev. Heywood Jahblowme
Super-Dooper Political Prayer Team Leader
Hmmm, hostile to evangelical Christians but other posts have you decrying religious discrimination . . . what gives?

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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 08:04 PM   #26
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Hmmm, hostile to evangelical Christians but other posts have you decrying discrimination against adherents of Islam . . . what gives?
Late to this topic, but I am confused by your post.

How is opposition to discrimination (against Islam or any other non-terrorist group) inconsistent with opposition to groups which claim absolute truth in disregard of other groups which may feel differently (I am generalizing a bit about what is understood as evangelicals, and don't mean any disrespect -- assume Brewer is referring to that subset which claims the sole path to salvation, etc.)?

Just curious -- I don't see the inconsistency.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 08:07 PM   #27
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Just curious -- I don't see the inconsistency.
What part of religious discrimination confuses you?
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 08:33 PM   #28
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
What part of religious discrimination confuses you?
Easy, bug guy -- just trying to follow your reasoning, No need for defensiveness.

I gather you are not saying that opposition to discrimination and opposition to groups that discriminate are inconsistent. I'll let Brewer speak for himself, but I just didn't get your analogy.

Cheers,

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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 10:30 PM   #29
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Some states allow this, but Arizona does not.
That's a horrible injustice that needs to be corrected. Good luck at getting it changed at the earliest possible time!
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 10:45 PM   #30
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
I am generalizing a bit about what is understood as evangelicals
Yeah, and I think somewhat inappropriately Rich. It's fun to associate all Christian religions and activities with the for-profit "evangelicals" you can catch on tv Sunday mornings. But there is a level of evangelical activity within all denominations and lumping too much together based on your observation of Sunday morning tv is a stretch.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 10:50 PM   #31
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Re: One of the sleaziest

I believe there is no (current) evangelical activity in Judaism or Hinduism--neither seek converts. Some Hindus and Jews might like to increase the level of religious fervor in their fellow adherents, but AFAIK they don't seek new members except via birth or marriage.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 10:59 PM   #32
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by astromeria
I believe there is no (current) evangelical activity in Judaism or Hinduism--neither seek converts. Some Hindus and Jews might like to increase the level of religious fervor in their fellow adherents, but AFAIK they don't seek new members except via birth or marriage.
If this is in responce to my post, please review what I said.

But, now that you've said this, I did note on the PBS news this evening that a group of folks considering themselves to be Jews in India is being allowed to move to Israel with the condition that they convert to traditional Judaism. Several hundred have moved so far. Interesting......
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-19-2006, 11:26 PM   #33
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Re: One of the sleaziest

I didn;t see the NewsHour tonight and couldn;t find the story online. But when we vistied India, we went to the city of Cochin, which had an area of several blocks called Jewtown. Centuries ago, Jewish traders from Syria landed in Cochin--some married Indian women and stayed in India, and a Jewish community developed. I'm not surprised that their practice of Judiaism departed from "standard"--right here in Charleston reform Judaism was developed after all! Anyhow, the temple is still there in Cochin (a pretty port city) and well maintained, although no longer in use. except as a museum/tourist attraction. The floor is made of lovely old Chinese tile in simple styles that reminded me of Blue Willow pattern (what you generally used to see in Chinese restaurants years ago). Yes, there were also Chinese traders in Cochin--the type of wooden fishnet holders still in use along the Cochin shore is of an old Chinese style. There's also a large church in Cochin--it was oringally Dutch, then English, then somethng like South Indian Anglican. Most Indian Christians are from Kerala province, along the southwast coast, where Cochin is. BTW, Indian Christians tend to have English (often Biblical) first names--and occasionally last names. Our guide in Cochin was named Joseph.

EDIT Here's an interesting web page with info about the Jews of India--there's a lot mroe to the story than I learned on my trip:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...m/indians.html
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 12:50 AM   #34
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by youbet
That's a horrible injustice that needs to be corrected. Good luck at getting it changed at the earliest possible time!
I don't know if it's an injustice, but it does not promote easy voting access. There have been discussions in Arizona about changing that, but it would be expensive. In order to allow voting at any polling place, the polling places all have to have complete access to the entire registered voter roles. States that do not have each polling place wired to a central data base have a difficulty in accomplishing the vote anywhere system.

If you are going to be travelin on election day in Arizona, you need to cast an early ballot.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 01:23 AM   #35
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by Patrick
If there's so much fraud going on, why are so many people opposed to making people actually IDENTIFY themselves at the polls?
Bringing this thread back to voting fraud . . .

1) There does not appear to be any evidence that any significant amount of fraud is going on.

2) Most of the proposed laws would have limited to no impact on fraud, but would increase cost and discourage voting for some voters.

And I suspect that this is the point. Most voting law proposals are coming from the Right and voter statistics indicate that low voter turnout favors Republicans. The more hurdles and hassles they can place between voters and the polling booth, the more likely they are to win.

Getting back to the original post, notice that the writer of the letter did not go out and identify or locate a single illegal alien registered voter. The letter did not get mailed only to illegal aliens. The letter targeted all Spanish speaking newly registered Democrat voters. It was designed to intimidate Spanish speaking Democrats.

====
Voter Warning Letter Linked to GOP Campaign
Republican Officials Urge Candidate to Withdraw From Race
By PETER PRENGAMAN, AP

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...19074709990003

'. . . State and federal officials were investigating the letter, which was written in Spanish and mailed to an estimated 14,000 Democratic voters in central Orange County.

. . . Numerous political leaders denounced the letter, including Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican.

"If it is proven that a candidate was responsible for this action, that candidate is clearly not fit to serve the people of California and should withdraw immediately from his or her race," California Republican Chairman Duf Sundheim said in a statement.
. . .
. . . Nguyen's campaign Web site says he was born in 1973 in Vietnam, where his family fled the Communist regime.

In 2004, he unsuccessfully ran in the Democratic primary to challenge Republican Rep. Dana Rohrabacher in a heavily Republican coastal district. He later changed his party affiliation and declared his bid to upset Sanchez. . .'
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 02:23 AM   #36
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Yours in Jeebus,
Oh, really?

Frankly, I'm tired of open season on Christians. Just as attractive as ignorant attacks on Jews and Muslims. Get a life, and a brain.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 03:16 AM   #37
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee


And I suspect that this is the point. Most voting law proposals are coming from the Right and voter statistics indicate that low voter turnout favors Republicans. The more hurdles and hassles they can place between voters and the polling booth, the more likely they are to win.

Gotta love those "hurdles and hassles."

JG
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 04:53 AM   #38
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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why are so many people opposed to making people actually IDENTIFY themselves at the polls?
'cuz that way how would Ann Coulter be able to vote

I don't see anything wrong with having to vote at your local polling place (if you don't want to have your ballot be 'provisional'). The polls are usually open from something like 7am to 8pm.. so you have a little inconvenience, big deal! Otherwise, just sign up for an absentee ballot and mail it in.

I never showed ID, nor was I ever asked for it, and I never had a voter registration ID.. I never even heard of such a thing (maybe they didn't have it in MA?).. just name and address and two people crossed me off their identical lists.

As far as the targeted mailings go.. there have been far worse abuses, like understaffing and fewer machines in poor districts -- to make the lines long and discourage folks. I never waited more than 2 or 3 minutes, ever. I also have to laugh a bit at the "Hispanic" mailings.. I always got them due to my (Italian) last name.. but damned if I could read 'em!


----
edited to add:
You know, justin/MasterBlaster et al. I read the letter more closely and two things stood out as patently false and misleading (again, the Spanish version would be the source but I'd find it hard to imagine much confusion.. the statements below are very clear):

"You are advised that if your residence in this country is illegal or you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that could result in jail time, and you will be deported for voting without having a right to do so.
...
Unlike Mexico, here there is no incentive to vote. There is not a voter registration card in the United States. Therefore, it is useless and dangerous to vote in any election if you are not a citizen of the United States."

The letter clearly states that if you are an immigrant (forgetting that there are just as many LEGAL immigrants as illegal ones, if not more..) and you vote, you will be deported. Once that false and scary thought is planted in our minds, we read on to find out that voting is useless and dangerous (for non-citizens, we read after), but the blanket statement is made that "there is no incentive to vote" !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very nasty and depressing.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 07:40 AM   #39
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by youbet
Yeah, and I think somewhat inappropriately Rich.
Point well taken.

There is a fine line between fervor for one's own belief system on the one hand, and a mission or desire to alter the belief system of others. Many respect that line, some don't. It was the latter that I was referring to, a bit too glibly I regret.

Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: One of the sleaziest
Old 10-20-2006, 10:06 AM   #40
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Re: One of the sleaziest

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Originally Posted by ladelfina

I don't see anything wrong with having to vote at your local polling place
The "your neighborhood polling place only" mentality is convenient for machine politics. The Ward Boss Committeman can hang out nearby noting who is coming and going, pass out free packs of cigarettes, his/her business cards that get you a free beer at the tavern and those sort of things. He/she knows everyone coming and going from the polls. In a crowded urban environment, dividing the turf into tiny precincts and wards makes it easier to organize, to influence, to control, to intimidate.

Of course there are upsides. If Richard J Daley, rest his soul, would have been elected president, Ward Bosses would have organized the world and terrorists would be whining for their share of patronage jobs and graft.


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