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Old 09-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #21
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Pretty sure in the US you can't use deadly force to defend your property either right? Only if you feel you feel personally threatened?
I imagine the law varies from state to state but I always liked the old canard that if you shoot someone at the door, drag them inside because once an intruder enters your house you are free to do anything to protect yourself. In my opinion, the very presence of an intruder in your house is a mortal threat and anyone would be foolish to not perceive it as such.

Now, if the guy was stupid enough to explain to the authorities that he did not feel threatened at all but was POd and decided to kill the intruder for having the temerity to pick his house, all bets are off.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #22
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God Bless Texas! But why does it have to be so hot there? Here you're better off letting the criminal kill you than defend yourself.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by donheff
I imagine the law varies from state to state but I always liked the old canard that if you shoot someone at the door, drag them inside because once an intruder enters your house you are free to do anything to protect yourself. In my opinion, the very presence of an intruder in your house is a mortal threat and anyone would be foolish to not perceive it as such.

Now, if the guy was stupid enough to explain to the authorities that he did not feel threatened at all but was POd and decided to kill the intruder for having the temerity to pick his house, all bets are off.
+1... The first shot is to protect yourself when invaded, and the second is to make sure he doesn't drag himself out of the house and dispute what had truly occurred.

Reminds me of my favorite John Wayne line...I wont be wronged and I wont be insulted. I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to people, and I require the same from them.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:54 PM   #24
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Generally speaking, if you feel you are in danger of death or great bodily harm (that would certainly apply to many of us, being considerably older than any likely intruder), you are entitled to do whatever is necessary to stop the threat.

Note that this doesn't mean pumping bullets into the guy until he stops twitching; it just means doing whatever is necessary to ensure the immediate threat has been neutralized. Fleeing the scene may be one way to do that, although it's not required in your own home, at least in the USA.

Another significant factor in this, of course, is that the entire encounter is likely to be measured in seconds, not minutes, so it's a very good idea to be prepared and have a very good idea what you might be able to do to defend yourself. A gun can be an excellent tool, but so can a canister of high potency pepper spray.

Personally, I'm a great believer in preparedness and self-defense training for everyone. As the old saw has it, "when seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:17 PM   #25
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The details matter is situations like the one in the original link, and like this case, we don't have them. I'm not sure how I would react if something like that we're to happen to me, but the one thing I am absolutely certain of is the next day I would hire a good attorney.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:59 PM   #26
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The details matter is situations like the one in the original link, and like this case, we don't have them. I'm not sure how I would react if something like that we're to happen to me, but the one thing I am absolutely certain of is the next day I would hire a good attorney.
I kind of turned the scenario around to the more usual one of being invaded while currently already being in the home. Under the scenario that happened in article, right or wrong, if I had seen the door ajar and with foreign shoes, I would like to have thought that I would have ran back out of the door immediately and then called police at my neighbors house. Going into the house after intruder was already there, I would have no advantage and would have to assume he has my gun since it is laying on the nightstand in plain view, or had his own weapon.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:25 PM   #27
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The details matter is situations like the one in the original link, and like this case, we don't have them. I'm not sure how I would react if something like that we're to happen to me, but the one thing I am absolutely certain of is the next day I would hire a good attorney.
Yeah, actually, this is this best response. I am completely sympathetic with someone who freaks out at a home invasion. Hit em with a 2x4, shoot em, just don't let them get at you. But entering the house when you see that someone may be in it? No. I remember when the next door neighbor's alarm was going off and I thought about using my key to go in to check it out but instead called the police. They told me to get the heck away and wait for them. I immediately realized, "well, duh!"
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:39 PM   #28
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I think most people are missing the fact that it was not his house!
Huh?
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:16 AM   #29
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God Bless Texas! But why does it have to be so hot there? Here you're better off letting the criminal kill you than defend yourself.
I don't know if it made it onto REW's "1001 reasons NOT to move to Texas", but we just might have more people that need shooting here.

And I haven't heard anyone around here say that armed homeowners or stand your ground are making a significant dent in the criminal class.

I don't know what the solution is..... yes I do. "Transportation". And if serious enough (but still less than a hanging offence) or a problem repeat offender, "Transportation for Life". With a nice bounty. Why, I would be a real supporter of "Public Transportation" at last
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:27 PM   #30
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Yeah, actually, this is this best response. I am completely sympathetic with someone who freaks out at a home invasion. Hit em with a 2x4, shoot em, just don't let them get at you. But entering the house when you see that someone may be in it? No. I remember when the next door neighbor's alarm was going off and I thought about using my key to go in to check it out but instead called the police. They told me to get the heck away and wait for them. I immediately realized, "well, duh!"
One Saturday morning when we lived in Baton Rouge a neighbor from across the street knocked on our door and asked if he could use our phone to call the police. (this was before cell phones). He had come home from the store, saw that a back window was broken and his back door was stood open. His immediate response was to go look for help rather than enter and risk a deadly confrontation. (the good guy doesn't always win)

I don't believe I would ever enter my otherwise empty house if I thought there was an intruder inside.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #31
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I'm pretty sure the situation would be even worse in England, based on some of the stories I've read about over there.

I can't really blame the prosecutors for upholding the law, but I do think the people should get some of these laws changed.
Again the term "reasonable force" is key. A very recent English case involved an elderly couple who were burgled at night. The couple are farmers so had a legal shot gun and the wife fired it and hit the burglar's hand. He ran off and was later caught by the police. The Crown Prosecution Service did not file any charges against the home owners as they said they used appropriate force.

In another case a man chased a burglar into the street and hit him with a cricket bat causing bad head injuries......he got several years for assault etc.

But in both of these cases the people were in the house when the burglary occurred. If there was no one in the house (other than the burglar) and the Canadian guy came home, picked up the knife and went upstairs, I'd argue he precipitated the confrontation and could be prosecuted. If his mother was in the house it would be reasonable for him to go to her aid.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:44 PM   #32
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I don't believe I would ever enter my otherwise empty house if I thought there was an intruder inside.
Yep, call the police, I agree. I'd only go in if I felt a loved one might be in danger and time was critical.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #33
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In another case a man chased a burglar into the street and hit him with a cricket bat causing bad head injuries......he got several years for assault etc.
I believe I read about this one.....the prosecution's stance, IIRC, was that although the (home invaders, I think) intruders had assaulted his family, once they had left the house and were fleeing they no longer constituted an 'immediate danger'.

The moral being....kill them inside the house and say you were in fear of your, and your family's, life/lives.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #34
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:01 PM   #35
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But in both of these cases the people were in the house when the burglary occurred. If there was no one in the house (other than the burglar) and the Canadian guy came home, picked up the knife and went upstairs, I'd argue he precipitated the confrontation and could be prosecuted. If his mother was in the house it would be reasonable for him to go to her aid.
All I know is what was in the linked article, but I got the impression the mother was in the house.

Quote:
Walsh can't understand how the justice system could penalize her boyfriend.

"He saved my life, he saved my mother's life,” she said. “It was a very frightening experience.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #36
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Pretty sure in the US you can't use deadly force to defend your property either right? Only if you feel you feel personally threatened?
Varies quite a lot by state. I used to live in NJ. If someone broke into your house and you defended yourself with anything (from pepper spray to a bazooka) you would more than likely face criminal charges and almost certainly would face a civil lawsuit by the intruder or their survivors. Here in CO state law includes a "make my day" provision that states that if someone breaks into your house and you feel threatened, you can do whatever you deem necessary and be exempt from criminal charges and civil lawsuits.
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