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Old 11-21-2010, 07:57 PM   #41
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Exec Asst (EA) has it out for my boss...she has seen him be rude to people, fire people, and run them off. She dislikes him immensely.

EA told me that another person in the ranks recently told her "that's it, there's no fixing it, I am looking for a job"; add to that my question about payback of the signing bonus, and EA went to BB and spilled the beans...that boss' rudeness is causing past and present unhappiness. BB was shocked and now wants to talk to me (and maybe some others; don't know for sure).

My gut tells me this is not a search for malcontents. And EA is the one that has noticed my discouragement over some months. My sense is my discouragement is coming to BB from EA and no one else.

And this is a very hiearchical organization btw.

OK, but compare the upside vs. the downside. Upside: idiot gets fired. Downside: you get fired, your sbitching gets back to the a-hole, you get a "reputation," you do permanent damage to your professional rep, etc. We ave not yet even mentioned the probabilities of these outcomes. I would zip it if I were you. If the BB really cares, they already know what is going on. If they do not cae, you really want to keep your mouth shut.
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:59 PM   #42
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youbet - she noticed me overworked, frowning, taking beatings from the boss, etc.

She is not a gossip hound or mean spirited in any way. She is a great person and means well.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:09 PM   #43
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The downside to these situations is far greater than the upside. Office politics can be brutal and predatory.

You don’t know the motives of the executives that are talking with you. By badmouthing someone else you may be building a reputation for yourself as disrespectful or challenging of authority. You also may be building a bad relationship that can bite back.

IMHO communications with senior management should focus on positive things very specific to your job that, if changed, would enable you to be more productive.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:12 PM   #44
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Not trying to give you grief here GW, you're already getting enough of that at work. But this is the statement my comments were based on:

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Well, the executive assistant to my boss' boss heard that I was unhappy and pulled me aside.
That sounds like information or rumor harvested from the office gossip garden.

Now you're talking about her noticing you being "overworked, frowning, taking beatings from the boss, etc."

With the changing story, I'm going to excuse myself from the discussion and just advise you to watch yourself in all this. It is entirely possible it will all work out just fine. But I also detect a lot of emotion on both your part and on the part of EA (per your description of her "having it out for your boss.") So try to take a deep breath and handle yourself professionally, objectively and try to leave the emotions back at your desk.

Good luck.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:15 PM   #45
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Looks to me like GW believes he has scoped out the situation reasonably well. Yes, their are risks involved, but if GW's assessment is correct it may be best to tell it like it is, warts and all - but do so in a professional manner.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:38 PM   #46
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This thread is eerily reminiscent of Ed's thread about traveling to Pakistan. I hope it ends as well.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:40 PM   #47
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This thread is eerily reminiscent of Ed's thread about traveling to Pakistan. I hope it ends as well.
Yep, maybe BB will fire B and cancel the meeting...
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:47 PM   #48
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youbet - my OP was misleading; the EA did hear it from me.

Of course I won't rule out anything else because everyone, including boss, knows I was overworked and dealt with a lot of change over the last several months.

And unhappiness is the norm in this department (and other parts of the organization), in fact the running joke when someone goes out of town is "be sure to come back!".
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:57 PM   #49
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Tread lightly, I for one would not throw the boss under the bus, if he is truly a bad manager, he will be found out and replaced eventually. You have much more to lose in this situation than anyone else. It is a small world and burning bridges can bite you when you least expect.
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:32 PM   #50
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Every time I have been interviewed about a boss I've been honest if it was someone I didn't like and it always worked out well for me. I suspect by the time subordinates are being interviewed the writing is already on the wall for the boss in question, and management is just looking for more documentation to support a decision they have already made.
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:48 PM   #51
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I have never been one for backing down to anyone in management, in my experience most corporations are constantly looking to improve, the most important part is to insure you provide more value than you are paid. If you are doing that your opinion will always be valued and you will be able to give your honest thoughts on any situation concerning your company and you will be viewed as decisive. This does not mean making destructive comments about your boss or your company. Obnoxious and aggressiveness by themselves do not negatively impact a company.

If your bosses boss is calling you for a meeting on your boss I would have an unemotional evaluation of your bosses performance if asked and if you have any critical analysis to present on how his decisions are negatively affecting the company I would certainly list those with a counter of how you would prefer the situation to be handled. You should also realize it is not easy to be the boss, or the bosses boss and be willing to state you will work just as hard as ever to implement the decisions made by management. Myself I could not work any other way.
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:58 PM   #52
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It is very flattering to be asked by BB your opinion of B. Be sure you've done a cold evaluation of all the motivations, equities, gain/loss opportunities here, especially your own. That's not meant at all in a mean or negative way.

Good luck
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:15 AM   #53
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I agree with this.

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Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Even if all turns out for the best (entirely possible) and the rude boss is either moved or improved, if I were OP I'd make a note of how my conversations with peers moved along the grapevine. And I'd remember that everything you say to everyone will eventually get to whoever you'd least like to hear it with unpredictable results.
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:03 AM   #54
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Sam gave the best synopsis, IMO, but I'll add my 2cents worth, at no additional charge...around getting what you want out of an inevitable meeting.

I'd just confirm there are "issues" in the department that contribute to lower morale and diminished produictivity , but that you are uncomfortable with the meeting because the demonstrated "corporate culture" in your dept. doesn't support open and honest upward-reporting feedback.

If you sense in the meeting with BB that she is looking for ammunition to fire B, I'd :

1. Ask her exactly what is it you are looking for? She may give you the opening you both are looking for. If she is vague on this, she gets vague answers back.
2. Why did she choose to interview you? Suggest she talk to others in the dept. - and helpfully furnish her a few names...stack the deck.
3. Ask her does B know about this meeting? How do she believe he would he react if he knew? Give her food for thought.
4. Confirm you are unhappy with your current posting at Megacorp, love what you do and would really like to stay at Megacorp as a positive contributor if the culture were different. Brewer played this well in his situation.

Good luck, can't wait for the post with the meeting update.
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:54 AM   #55
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Don't ever sell out

After reading all of these posts, my reaction is more than ever...become FI. The bill for all that crap you have ever spent money on is coming due now with interest in your regressing quality of life.

If you become FI then it just won't matter anymore. Then you can say what you want, whenever, and to whomever. If they want to then fire you, so be it. But you have to be true to yourself. Don't let anyone push you around. Don't ever sell out.

It is just amazing how different you feel once you have enough.
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:34 PM   #56
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After reading all of these posts, my reaction is more than ever...become FI. The bill for all that crap you have ever spent money on is coming due now with interest in your regressing quality of life.

If you become FI then it just won't matter anymore. Then you can say what you want, whenever, and to whomever. If they want to then fire you, so be it. But you have to be true to yourself. Don't let anyone push you around. Don't ever sell out.

It is just amazing how different you feel once you have enough.
+1. Every day I don't kill the ice-crunching, change-jingling, pen-clicking m-fer around here is a day closer to my version of FI.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:52 PM   #57
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I was/am in a similar situation. I am close to FIRE and chose to go to HR. I did however collect names of witnesses and dates, as well as a series of acts that make the company legally liable and lost them production and money. I also made sure that my list included enough names of others that I would not be a person with a personal vendetta. My real fear is that when the boss gets fired, that he will attempt to carry out some of his threats. His health is such that if he loses his job, he will lose insurability and bankrupt himself. Dire circumstances make people desperate.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #58
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Exec Asst (EA) has it out for my boss...she has seen him be rude to people, fire people, and run them off. She dislikes him immensely.

EA told me that another person in the ranks recently told her "that's it, there's no fixing it, I am looking for a job"; add to that my question about payback of the signing bonus, and EA went to BB and spilled the beans...that boss' rudeness is causing past and present unhappiness. BB was shocked and now wants to talk to me (and maybe some others; don't know for sure).

My gut tells me this is not a search for malcontents. And EA is the one that has noticed my discouragement over some months. My sense is my discouragement is coming to BB from EA and no one else.

And this is a very hiearchical organization btw.
I think EA is talking out of school--telling you about anothe person complaining, pumping you for complaints about the boss, running to her boss to share those. Some people like to stir things up and enjoy the fallout. Watch your back.

But worse for you, imho, is this last paragraph in your first post:

Quote:
And there is actually another layer of boss...my immediate boss who has not been in the job long and has been working on other things. This person strikes me as a chameleon trying to survive (can't blame the person). This is the fourth person in that position in 12 months...part of the turnover I mentioned.
So you are really below a different person than the bad boss (who is your boss's boss), but the bad boss's boss had been made aware by the EA that you are unhappy and instead of you discussing it with your immediate boss, or your immediate boss discussing it with bad boss's boss, you are being invited to go over both your boss and your boss's (bad) boss's heads to complaing about your boss's (bad) boss.

No good can come of this for you.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:53 PM   #59
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So you are really below a different person than the bad boss (who is your boss's boss), but the bad boss's boss had been made aware by the EA that you are unhappy and instead of you discussing it with your immediate boss, or your immediate boss discussing it with bad boss's boss, you are being invited to go over both your boss and your boss's (bad) boss's heads to complaing about your boss's (bad) boss.
No good can come of this for you.
OK, now I need a scorecard, and maybe finger puppets...
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:17 PM   #60
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So you are really below a different person than the bad boss (who is your boss's boss), but the bad boss's boss had been made aware by the EA that you are unhappy and instead of you discussing it with your immediate boss, or your immediate boss discussing it with bad boss's boss, you are being invited to go over both your boss and your boss's (bad) boss's heads to complaing about your boss's (bad) boss.


Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.
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