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OTWQOTD: Roll Tubing to a point?
11-12-2013, 07:45 AM
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#1
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OTWQOTD: Roll Tubing to a point?
If I wanted to roll one end of some stock small diameter tubing to a point, could I do it without costly specialized equipment? From what I've found with online search, it appears it requires costly equipment.
I'm talking thin wall tubing aluminum, brass or copper 1/8" to 1/2" in diameter, and for lack of a better description the end product would look much like a hollow knitting needle. I'm attempting to make my own splicing fids for anyone who's familiar.
Not seeking to find someone here to do it for me, but this is a resourceful group, so I thought I'd ask.
Off the Wall Question of the Day if you're wondering...
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11-12-2013, 07:54 AM
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#2
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Not sure how to do that in aluminum tube with home type equipment. If you have a friend who spins metal that might do it. As I suspect you know doing what you want to do is called roll forming. May I suggest turning the fids in hardwood on a normal woodturning lathe. Lots of turners around "Chicagoland". If you need a bunch, contact the "Chicago Woodturners" on the web and they will put you in touch with professionals. I don't want to go into business but can make one for you to see if you like. Let me know.
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11-12-2013, 08:10 AM
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#3
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by poorcarver
Not sure how to do that in aluminum tube with home type equipment. If you have a friend who spins metal that might do it. As I suspect you know doing what you want to do is called roll forming. May I suggest turning the fids in hardwood on a normal woodturning lathe. Lots of turners around "Chicagoland". If you need a bunch, contact the "Chicago Woodturners" on the web and they will put you in touch with professionals. I don't want to go into business but can make one for you to see if you like. Let me know.
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I have a good woodworking lathe, but they need to be hollow with thin walls. I probably have the terms wrong, but you're describing a fid or marlinspike, and I need a splicing fid like (see below).
I can buy a splicing fid kit for $70-80, but the material costs are probably less than $5. If I have to buy them I will, just like to be resourceful when I can.
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No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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11-12-2013, 08:14 AM
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#4
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Had to look it up to see what they were. You might get more replies with some pictures. (edit, I see you have some now)
If I were to try to make one, I wouldn't roll the end at all. That looks far too difficult w/o the proper tools. I'd try a couple things:
1) Simply cut the end at a shallow angle, then file and sand the edges smooth. It looks like all you need is to have it be able to pierce the rope, I think it could be hollow and do that as well?
2) If it does need to be a solid point, do #1, then fill that point with epoxy, let that harden, then file and sand it smooth.
3) Cut the end at 90 degrees, insert a wood dowel, and form that to a point. Dowels can be formed to a point in a pencil sharpener, and brass/alum tube is easily filed. Maybe fill the joint between the wood dowel point and the tubing with epoxy, file and sand for a smooth transition.
They didn't look that expensive on-line, not sure this is worth the effort?
-ERD50
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11-12-2013, 08:16 AM
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#5
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Got it, I was thinking regular fid. I suppose one could turn a wooden point with the proper hole in it and glue it to a piece of the metal stock but seems a big PIA. I watched Cyndy Drozia (not spelt correctly) turn far smaller finials but that was her not me.
If your lathe is on the heavy duty side, I would suppose you could roll the stock like folks who do metal spinning.
Otherwise out of ideas.
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Here's to them that would write.
There's none ever feared that the Truth would be heard,
But those whom the Truth would indict."
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11-12-2013, 08:23 AM
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#6
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Check this video -
in the first 2 minutes, he shows a tube just cut at an angle, and he makes one like that of pvc for larger rope.
And looking how this guy uses them, I don't see why a hollow tube cut at an angle would not work?
-ERD50
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11-12-2013, 08:25 AM
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#7
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If I understand how it functions correctly, I'd make the point separately, then attach it with solder or epoxy. You can solder aluminum with these rods: Aluminum Welding Rods - Pack of 8 Low Temperature Rods
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11-12-2013, 08:32 AM
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#8
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Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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11-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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#9
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I'm looking at a couple of mechanical pencils on my desk. One uses 0.9mm lead, the other 0.7mm. in the discard jar are some old 0.5mm versions I can't seem to use without breaking leads.
The metal sleeve that the lead emerges from could be soldered or glued into the end of a small diameter brass tube if you are skilled at soldering.
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11-12-2013, 09:07 AM
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#10
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Tapering metal tubing would not be practical without specialized equipment.
Even then it is a difficult operation.
Think fork blade in a set of bicycle frame tubes. When drawning the tube to a smaller diameter the wall thickness increases. There are many steps and specialized dies involved with manipulating the tubing to end up with a consistent wall thickness.
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11-12-2013, 10:18 AM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
If I wanted to roll one end of some stock small diameter tubing to a point, could I do it without costly specialized equipment? From what I've found with online search, it appears it requires costly equipment.
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Do you have a chuck for your wood lathe? Meaning something like a 3 (or 4) jaw chuck on a conventional metal cutting lathe.
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11-12-2013, 10:37 AM
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#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...
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Yes, if the tip can be a tapered solid, then the easy solution is to machine a tip from solid stock to fit the inside diameter of the tubing.
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11-12-2013, 12:24 PM
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#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn2bwild
Yes, if the tip can be a tapered solid, then the easy solution is to machine a tip from solid stock to fit the inside diameter of the tubing.
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Thanks. I am sure you're right. And I've abandoned rolling a tip based on your earlier post. I was guessing it wouldn't be practically possible for an amateur (me) with no real tools, but I needed someone with experience to confirm.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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11-12-2013, 12:35 PM
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#14
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Like... a drop of gorilla glue, force a dowel, clip and sand?
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11-12-2013, 01:11 PM
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#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu
Like... a drop of gorilla glue, force a dowel, clip and sand?
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Might work though I'm a little leery of using a wood tip. The fid MUST be perfectly smooth to work in this application. Anything but the tiniest rough spot or "splinter" could result in snagging individual filaments, making the fid unusable for splicing. I'm going to experiment with what I've learned thus far...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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11-12-2013, 01:26 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Thanks. I am sure you're right. And I've abandoned rolling a tip based on your earlier post. I was guessing it wouldn't be practically possible for an amateur (me) with no real tools, but I needed someone with experience to confirm.
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Machining a smooth, tapered tip from solid stock the same OD and with a shoulder to fit the ID of the target tubing would be routine if you have access to a metal turning lathe.
On a wood turning lathe equipped with a 3-jaw chuck it could be managed with a file and some patience.
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11-12-2013, 01:33 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn2bwild
Machining a smooth, tapered tip from solid stock the same OD and with a shoulder to fit the ID of the target tubing would be routine if you have access to a metal turning lathe.
On a wood turning lathe equipped with a 3-jaw chuck it could be managed with a file and some patience.
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Seems like a good excuse to get a metal lathe. Don't forget to use your 25% off coupon. 
Mini Lathe - 7" x 10" Precision Mini Lathe
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11-12-2013, 01:59 PM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...
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Could you improvise one from a knitting needle of the appropriate size?
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11-12-2013, 02:11 PM
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#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
Could you improvise one from a knitting needle of the appropriate size?
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That's one of the options I'm considering since DW has dozens. I tried to use one of her old knitting needles with tape for rope splicing this weekend. It worked but it really doesn't provide the results I was looking for. I've already located hollow straight tubing in various metals and diameters.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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11-12-2013, 02:27 PM
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#20
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In the interest of carity (pedantics), bringing straight walled tubing to a closed or rounded end is called doming and is a simpler and easier process than tapering. A clever machinist could craft a mandrel and spinning tools to accomplish this task.
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