OTWQOTD: Roll Tubing to a point?

[Midpack]

If I wanted to roll one end of some stock small diameter tubing to a point, could I do it without costly specialized equipment? From what I've found with online search, it appears it requires costly equipment.

I'm talking thin wall tubing aluminum, brass or copper 1/8" to 1/2" in diameter, and for lack of a better description the end product would look much like a hollow knitting needle. I'm attempting to make my own splicing fids for anyone who's familiar.

Not seeking to find someone here to do it for me, but this is a resourceful group, so I thought I'd ask.

Off the Wall Question of the Day if you're wondering...

 

[poorcarver]

Not sure how to do that in aluminum tube with home type equipment. If you have a friend who spins metal that might do it. As I suspect you know doing what you want to do is called roll forming. May I suggest turning the fids in hardwood on a normal woodturning lathe. Lots of turners around "Chicagoland". If you need a bunch, contact the "Chicago Woodturners" on the web and they will put you in touch with professionals. I don't want to go into business but can make one for you to see if you like. Let me know.

 

[Midpack]

Not sure how to do that in aluminum tube with home type equipment. If you have a friend who spins metal that might do it. As I suspect you know doing what you want to do is called roll forming. May I suggest turning the fids in hardwood on a normal woodturning lathe. Lots of turners around "Chicagoland". If you need a bunch, contact the "Chicago Woodturners" on the web and they will put you in touch with professionals. I don't want to go into business but can make one for you to see if you like. Let me know.

I have a good woodworking lathe, but they need to be hollow with thin walls. I probably have the terms wrong, but you're describing a fid or marlinspike, and I need a splicing fid like (see below).

I can buy a splicing fid kit for $70-80, but the material costs are probably less than $5. If I have to buy them I will, just like to be resourceful when I can.

 

[ERD50]

Had to look it up to see what they were. You might get more replies with some pictures. (edit, I see you have some now)

If I were to try to make one, I wouldn't roll the end at all. That looks far too difficult w/o the proper tools. I'd try a couple things:

1) Simply cut the end at a shallow angle, then file and sand the edges smooth. It looks like all you need is to have it be able to pierce the rope, I think it could be hollow and do that as well?

2) If it does need to be a solid point, do #1, then fill that point with epoxy, let that harden, then file and sand it smooth.

3) Cut the end at 90 degrees, insert a wood dowel, and form that to a point. Dowels can be formed to a point in a pencil sharpener, and brass/alum tube is easily filed. Maybe fill the joint between the wood dowel point and the tubing with epoxy, file and sand for a smooth transition.

They didn't look that expensive on-line, not sure this is worth the effort?

-ERD50

 

[poorcarver]

Got it, I was thinking regular fid. I suppose one could turn a wooden point with the proper hole in it and glue it to a piece of the metal stock but seems a big PIA. I watched Cyndy Drozia (not spelt correctly) turn far smaller finials but that was her not me.

If your lathe is on the heavy duty side, I would suppose you could roll the stock like folks who do metal spinning.

Otherwise out of ideas.

 

[ERD50]

Check this video -

What's a Fid? Part 1 by Robert Black (405) 414-2004 - YouTube

in the first 2 minutes, he shows a tube just cut at an angle, and he makes one like that of pvc for larger rope.

And looking how this guy uses them, I don't see why a hollow tube cut at an angle would not work?

Splicing With Small Diameter Fids: The Basics - YouTube

-ERD50

 

[travelover]

If I understand how it functions correctly, I'd make the point separately, then attach it with solder or epoxy. You can solder aluminum with these rods: Aluminum Welding Rods - Pack of 8 Low Temperature Rods

 

[Midpack]

Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...

 

[bld999]

I'm looking at a couple of mechanical pencils on my desk. One uses 0.9mm lead, the other 0.7mm. in the discard jar are some old 0.5mm versions I can't seem to use without breaking leads.

The metal sleeve that the lead emerges from could be soldered or glued into the end of a small diameter brass tube if you are skilled at soldering.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Tapering metal tubing would not be practical without specialized equipment.
Even then it is a difficult operation.
Think fork blade in a set of bicycle frame tubes. When drawning the tube to a smaller diameter the wall thickness increases. There are many steps and specialized dies involved with manipulating the tubing to end up with a consistent wall thickness.

 

[Avalon]

If I wanted to roll one end of some stock small diameter tubing to a point, could I do it without costly specialized equipment? From what I've found with online search, it appears it requires costly equipment.

Do you have a chuck for your wood lathe? Meaning something like a 3 (or 4) jaw chuck on a conventional metal cutting lathe.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...

Yes, if the tip can be a tapered solid, then the easy solution is to machine a tip from solid stock to fit the inside diameter of the tubing.

 

[Midpack]

Yes, if the tip can be a tapered solid, then the easy solution is to machine a tip from solid stock to fit the inside diameter of the tubing.

Thanks. I am sure you're right. And I've abandoned rolling a tip based on your earlier post. I was guessing it wouldn't be practically possible for an amateur (me) with no real tools, but I needed someone with experience to confirm.

 

[imoldernu]

Like... a drop of gorilla glue, force a dowel, clip and sand?

 

[Midpack]

Like... a drop of gorilla glue, force a dowel, clip and sand?

Might work though I'm a little leery of using a wood tip. The fid MUST be perfectly smooth to work in this application. Anything but the tiniest rough spot or "splinter" could result in snagging individual filaments, making the fid unusable for splicing. I'm going to experiment with what I've learned thus far...

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Thanks. I am sure you're right. And I've abandoned rolling a tip based on your earlier post. I was guessing it wouldn't be practically possible for an amateur (me) with no real tools, but I needed someone with experience to confirm.

Machining a smooth, tapered tip from solid stock the same OD and with a shoulder to fit the ID of the target tubing would be routine if you have access to a metal turning lathe.
On a wood turning lathe equipped with a 3-jaw chuck it could be managed with a file and some patience.

 

[travelover]

Machining a smooth, tapered tip from solid stock the same OD and with a shoulder to fit the ID of the target tubing would be routine if you have access to a metal turning lathe.
On a wood turning lathe equipped with a 3-jaw chuck it could be managed with a file and some patience.

Seems like a good excuse to get a metal lathe. Don't forget to use your 25% off coupon.

Mini Lathe - 7" x 10" Precision Mini Lathe

 

[pb4uski]

Just adding a full tip to a hollow tube would probably be a better solution than me attempting roll forming. I'll have to think about that. Thanks...

Could you improvise one from a knitting needle of the appropriate size?

 

[Midpack]

Could you improvise one from a knitting needle of the appropriate size?

That's one of the options I'm considering since DW has dozens. I tried to use one of her old knitting needles with tape for rope splicing this weekend. It worked but it really doesn't provide the results I was looking for. I've already located hollow straight tubing in various metals and diameters.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

In the interest of carity (pedantics), bringing straight walled tubing to a closed or rounded end is called doming and is a simpler and easier process than tapering. A clever machinist could craft a mandrel and spinning tools to accomplish this task.

 

[pb4uski]

That's one of the options I'm considering since DW has dozens. I tried to use one of her old knitting needles with tape for rope splicing this weekend. It worked but it really doesn't provide the results I was looking for. I've already located hollow straight tubing in various metals and diameters.

You can probably go out and get knitting needles in the diameter you need and cut off the knob end at an angle. Looks pretty similar to me but the sturdiness may be different.

 

[Midpack]

You can probably go out and get knitting needles in the diameter you need and cut off the knob end at an angle. Looks pretty similar to me but the sturdiness may be different.

The ones DW has are solid rod (first idea I considered), but it appears there are cheap ones that are hollow. It will depend on wall thickness then, if they're not very thin, they won't work as splicing fids.

 

[imoldernu]

Just curiosity... being nosy...
what're you splicing?
Like, for boat lines?
or something else, as in art stuff?
Nylon?

 

[travelover]

Is this of use?

How to make your own permalok needles

 

[Koolau]

I'm talking thin wall tubing aluminum, brass or copper 1/8" to 1/2" in diameter, and for lack of a better description the end product would look much like a hollow knitting needle. [/I]

Just wondering why you COULDN'T use a knitting needle - just cut the end off at the tip. In fact, I thought they WERE hollow - and DW thinks they are too and she uses them - but I could be wrong. Sorry for my ignorance.

I looked up a bit on this and the commercially available "fids" don't seem very expensive. Just a thought (probably worth less than you paid for it as YMMV.)