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Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 08:52 AM   #1
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Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Brief synopsis of proposed immigration bill.* At the end of the story I've added some additional key points.



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - All of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the United States would have to leave the country under an immigration bill introduced on Tuesday by two conservative Republican senators.



The bill by Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl* and Texas Sen. John Cornyn* is a tougher alternative to a rival bipartisan bill introduced two month ago that would allow some illegals to get jobs legally and eventually gain citizenship without leaving the country.

The Kyl-Cornyn bill calls for the creation of a machine-readable, tamper-proof* * *Social Security card that would be issued to every American in the workforce to prevent illegals from getting jobs.

It would also fund the hiring of 10,000 new Department of* * *Homeland Security personnel dedicated to weeding illegal immigrants out of the workforce and an additional 1,000 for detecting immigration fraud.

Companies that hired illegal immigrants would face tough fines.

Additionally, the bill would authorize the recruitment of 10,000 new Border Patrol agents over five years and a $2.5 billion investment in unmanned aerial vehicles, cameras, barriers and sensors along the Mexican border.

The senators did not give a total cost for the bill but a fact sheet distributed with their proposal contained partial costs of well over $12 billion.

"We start with the proposition that we have to enforce the law at the border and in the interior of the country and at the workplace," Kyl told a news conference.

Cornyn said the bill contained an orderly and dignified way for illegal immigrants in the country to return home.

They would have five years in which to do so. Illegals who refuse would face fines of $2,000 a year for each year they stayed beyond the deadline if they subsequently left and then tried to apply to immigrate legally.

"Those who are here today illegally will have to return, every one of them, to their country of origin," Cornyn said.

The 2000 Census estimated the number of people who are in the country illegally at 8.7 million and said it was growing by half a million a year. Others put the number much higher.

(other info added by me)
1.* Bill requires all immigrant workers to acquire health insurance from* employer, themselves or their home country.
2.* They must undergo health and background screenings.
3. Visa lasts 2 years after which they must return home for 1 year. Can repeat this process 3 times.
4. Family can visit worker no longer than 30 days per year.

So what do you think?
To me this is like a lot of ideas that sound great on paper, but in reality,* I can't imagine the government pulling this off even if it did become law.* The health insurance* requirement* by itself is a massive pipedream.

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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 09:28 AM   #2
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

I agree, it sounds great on paper but it will never happen. Does the bill mention the cost of building 10 million plus detention beds while we round em up and move em out? We now let tens of thousands (I'm being very conservative) of caught illegals go annually because we have no place to put them. I'd be very happy to just turn off the flow at the borders. Hunting for 10 million plus already here will never happen. But I'd love it, and as far as raising the price of my lettuce- I'll pay for more expensive lettuce... or we bring back regulated, legal, documented seasonal workrers. The main thing is, the borders must be enforced, period.

The border patrol chief yesterday changed his tune and said he is looking at ways to work with civilians, after the success of the Minuteman project. Good development.

I've ceased and desisted from posting on this thread because it upset too many people- which was not my intention. But I do have an AP story where it estimates that illegals cost Californians alone many billions each year in health and criminal justice costs- which confirmed my view that this problem is much more expensive than previously mentioned.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 09:29 AM   #3
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Its a missive from la-la land. No chance in hell of passing and purely a sop to the two idiots' Nazi constituencies.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 10:04 AM   #4
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

I think it sounds like a great idea. Even if it doesn't pass the legislature it's a good first step toward a sensible immigration policy. Heck most of the Congress didn't want to even talk about it a couple years ago even though something like 80% of Americans want something done about all the illegals.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 10:20 AM   #5
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

I agree -- some great ideas here! Tamper-proof national id cards? Good, but let's take it a step further. Surgically-implanted RFID! That way, we can remotely detect "us" vs "them." Wait a minute, how about adding a little device that let's us give people a mild shock when they're not behaving correctly! That would save us lots of police dinero!

And I also strongly agree about the healthcare burden that we must bear due to "them." But let's look at the root cause here. IT'S SICK PEOPLE. What we should really be doing is getting rid of all the SICK PEOPLE, both domestic and foreign. Let the strong and healthy stay.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 10:30 AM   #6
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Man, that Canadian option is looking better and better, eh.

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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 10:38 AM   #7
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Wait a minute, how about adding a little device that let's us give people a mild shock when they're not behaving correctly!*
This would be wrong. Unless I controlled the button.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 10:50 AM   #8
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester

And I also strongly agree about the healthcare burden that we must bear due to "them."* * But let's look at the root cause here.* *IT'S SICK PEOPLE.* *What we should really be doing is getting rid of all the SICK PEOPLE, both domestic and foreign.* *Let the strong and healthy stay.
It seems rather cold-blooded to make people fight their way through our desert to get free medical care in the U.S. I much prefer a Constitutional ammendment requiring U.S. taxpayers to provide free food and medical care to the entire global population... not just those who enter our country illegally.

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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 11:04 AM   #9
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
It seems rather cold-blooded to make people fight their way through our desert to get free medical care in the U.S.
Yeah, you're right.* *Hmm, but something just occurred to me.* *Fighting your way across the desert is actually a pretty good physical fitness test.* *And those people are obviously pretty motivated to get here and do well.* *Whereas the people who are born here have taken no endurance test and have done nothing to demonstrate any motivation.* *Those lazy natural citizens think they're entitled to all sorts of benefits just because they were born here.* * What's up with that?

Maybe we should put all natural citizens across the border for a while, and see if they can make it back on their own, eh?
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 11:10 AM   #10
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester

Maybe we should put all natural citizens across the border for a while, and see if they can make it back on their own, eh?
NOW you're making sense to me. SOLD!
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 11:59 AM   #11
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

It's a bit overwrought but generally good policy. However it's origin is merely a "get off our backs, what more do you want?" sop to the general public and anyone correctly concerend with illegal immigration, not just some NAZI constituency.

It wont work because we dont want to spend the money and because The Business Class wants the cheap labor. And the politicos need to have something to point to at all times to freighten the people. Crime... "those people"... "national security", blah blah blah
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 12:34 PM   #12
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Cheech Marin - already starred in that movie.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 12:38 PM   #13
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

While I consider the proposal "good" in a sense, I do not expect it to pass because of neither party supporting it.

But something good could come of it if it leads to an actual discussion of the issue. Europeans, Muslims, etc have their "issues" that it is obvious they need to engage with. Well immigration is a big one for us. We really need to start a national discussion on the subject. One thing that may save us is that it is not an issue of one political party.

Seems to me key issues are increased (not perfect/expensive) border controls, better identification of citizens/workers (drive the "blue" folks crazy), a serious penalty on employers of illegal (watch the Republicans go crazy about that) and some internal enforcement. People should know that prices for services might go up. A lot of people will be willing to pay for this. We have an immigrant housecleaner; we specifically pay her SS even though it is a royal PITA. We also need to deal with people humanely. There are some really great people who have come here and are trying to get here. But we really do not need (IMHO) more unskilled immigrants.
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 06:58 PM   #14
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

This will never happen. California is the seventh (or is it sixth?) largest economy in the world -- we grow BILLIONS of dollars worth of food, and we export enough of it to have a significant, positive impact on the global balance of trade.

And the vast majority of that food is harvested by illegals paid virtually nothing and housed in squalor, like sardines, for the privledge.

Consumers benefit, growers benefit, the State of California benefits, and the national economy benefits from the sweat of illegal workers. The last time they tried to do something about illegals here the growers lobbied, successfully, for enough exceptions and loopholes to drive a produce truck through.

As it once was, so it will always be -- if you want to know what's likely to happen, follow the money.

Caroline
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 07:06 PM   #15
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
This will never happen.* California is the seventh (or is it sixth?) largest economy in the world -- we grow BILLIONS of dollars worth of food, and we export enough of it to have a significant, positive impact on the global balance of trade.

And the vast majority of that food is harvested by illegals paid virtually nothing and housed in squalor, like sardines, for the privledge.

Consumers benefit, growers benefit, the State of California benefits, and the national economy benefits from the sweat of illegal workers.* The last time they tried to do something about illegals here the growers lobbied, successfully, for enough exceptions and loopholes to drive a produce truck through.*

As it once was, so it will always be -- if you want to know what's likely to happen, follow the money.

Caroline
"follow the money". I like that. Also "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." OTOH, it is dangerous to say of anything "so it will always be."

JG
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??
Old 07-21-2005, 09:07 PM   #16
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Re: Our Immigration Problems are Over??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
This will never happen.* California is the seventh (or is it sixth?) largest economy in the world -- we grow BILLIONS of dollars worth of food, and we export enough of it to have a significant, positive impact on the global balance of trade.

And the vast majority of that food is harvested by illegals paid virtually nothing and housed in squalor, like sardines, for the privledge.

Consumers benefit, growers benefit, the State of California benefits, and the national economy benefits from the sweat of illegal workers.* The last time they tried to do something about illegals here the growers lobbied, successfully, for enough exceptions and loopholes to drive a produce truck through.*

As it once was, so it will always be -- if you want to know what's likely to happen, follow the money.

Caroline
So you don't think those cal farmers are going to be handing out the Blue Cross/Blue Shield cards anytime soon?
I'm shocked
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