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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 10:16 AM   #61
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Re: Our shameless culture

As an ex-military guy I see a bigger problem than the captured sailor's behavior -- where the hell was the rest of the British Navy? Why did the sailors board a vessel without cover from another vessel, or at least without some of them remaining behind to provide warning of another vessel approaching? Why was there no air cover provided, or called in? I don't know the whole story, but the impression I have from reading the accounts is that the sailors boarded the vessel, then were surprised and taken hostage when an Iranian vessel pulled up.

I don't know the British Navy's operational tactics or engagement rules but I sure hope ours are better!
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 10:40 AM   #62
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Originally Posted by SoonToRetire
As an ex-military guy I see a bigger problem than the captured sailor's behavior -- where the hell was the rest of the British Navy? Why did the sailors board a vessel without cover from another vessel, or at least without some of them remaining behind to provide warning of another vessel approaching? Why was there no air cover provided, or called in? I don't know the whole story, but the impression I have from reading the accounts is that the sailors boarded the vessel, then were surprised and taken hostage when an Iranian vessel pulled up.

I don't know the British Navy's operational tactics or engagement rules but I sure hope ours are better!
This is the kind of stuff that really makes me wonder how crack our guys are. I mean we all know the Iranians are looking for a fight. Why? because they know they can screw up the oil lanes, and quite frankly they don't give a rats arse.

So when I see the British taken and then when they are freed they get some heros welcome back home? Whats up with that? THEY GOT EFIN TAKEN HOSTAGE!!

Don't you get trained to fight??
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 12:24 PM   #63
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Re: Our shameless culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonToRetire
As an ex-military guy I see a bigger problem than the captured sailor's behavior -- where the hell was the rest of the British Navy? Why did the sailors board a vessel without cover from another vessel, or at least without some of them remaining behind to provide warning of another vessel approaching? Why was there no air cover provided, or called in? I don't know the whole story, but the impression I have from reading the accounts is that the sailors boarded the vessel, then were surprised and taken hostage when an Iranian vessel pulled up.

I don't know the British Navy's operational tactics or engagement rules but I sure hope ours are better!

I have not followed this closely. But I suspect that they were searching boats regularly and often. It probably became such a routine that they got sloppy. The Iranians probably began to understand the lax behavior and exploited it.

It was a mistake. They obviously deviated from normal protocol.

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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 01:01 PM   #64
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Originally Posted by newguy888
I said all you just posted months ago and Nords never spoke to me again.
I don't disagree with your Iraq opinion or with Chinaco's.

My opinion on the draft is just that. Speaking as one of the guys who would have had to live with the consequences of your desire for a draft, I still think it's a bad idea. IMO anyone who "supports" a draft should proffer their own commitment by either be holding #1 or espousing the same for their kids (both male and female). Or feel free to volunteer 40 hours a week as a CO at your nearest VA facility.

As for U.S. tactics during maritime intercepts, an excellent book on the subject was written by Dick Couch, a former SEAL who's written extensively about his community and is one of a couple of authors to have their support/cooperation. I think there's probably a very sound tactical reason that the Iranians picked on the British Navy and not the U.S. forces.

My opinion on most of the threads you start, newguy, is that you use this board as a dumping ground to vent your raging rants, with little in the way of constructive criticism or substantive proposals. But I don't read most of your posts anymore so it's not an issue unless a moderator gets a complaint.
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 02:35 PM   #65
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Originally Posted by chinaco
....Bottom Line: GW is stubborn. He had an axe to grind (so did cheney and rumsfeld). Iraq was a huge misstep. Saddam will just be replaced by another strong man (who will hate the US). If democracy seems to be in the mix at all, it will only be a thin veil that is intended to legitimize the dictator that is in place. The containment strategy (sanctions and leaky blockade) was the appropriate response. All we did was destablize the region further. The tribal mentality of the middle east is unlikely to yield in our lifetime. It will be another 100 years (if then) before the ME resembles anything like western europe in terms of laws, stability, and government.

Our money and resources would have been better spent on energy independence.
A professor I had suggested that if something I read didn't make sense I should try to understand what was read in a way that did make sense. Granted, this was a Great Books program, so the odds were pretty fair that Arisotle or De Touqueville were sharper than me. Now I don't really think GW is any kind of Great Thinker, but I wonder if having the middle east unstable is considered to be in our national interest? Like we don't want a unified, cohesive middle eastern bloc?
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 02:54 PM   #66
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Originally Posted by calmloki
Now I don't really think GW is any kind of Great Thinker, but I wonder if having the middle east unstable is considered to be in our national interest?
I think there were enough people in the know that have divulged what occurred (several cabinet level people). The reason was a simple as getting rid of Saddam and his evil spawn. I actually bought in to the WMD argument back when the propoganda was trotted out to the UN. Now that we know the truth... I am kinda p%ssed.

If GW had stopped at Afghanistan and the covert war on terror, he would be a hero. Instead, he will go down in history as a hard headed (stubborn) president that let his personal agenda get us deep in Sh!t.

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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 03:06 PM   #67
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Originally Posted by chinaco
If GW had stopped at Afghanistan and the covert war on terror, he would be a hero. Instead, he will go down in history as a hard headed (stubborn) president that let his personal agenda get us deep in Sh!t.

Why do you hate America?
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 03:10 PM   #68
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Re: Our shameless culture

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Why do you hate America?


Assuming you jest! Good one!
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-15-2007, 04:32 PM   #69
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Re: Our shameless culture

As much as I love the mother country (UK) and our dear cousin (Australia), Canada got it right.

We can't wait 'til the Crawford Chimp is gone.
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Re: Our shameless culture
Old 04-16-2007, 07:27 AM   #70
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Re: Our shameless culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I don't disagree with your Iraq opinion or with Chinaco's.

My opinion on the draft is just that. Speaking as one of the guys who would have had to live with the consequences of your desire for a draft, I still think it's a bad idea. IMO anyone who "supports" a draft should proffer their own commitment by either be holding #1 or espousing the same for their kids (both male and female). Or feel free to volunteer 40 hours a week as a CO at your nearest VA facility.

As for U.S. tactics during maritime intercepts, an excellent book on the subject was written by Dick Couch, a former SEAL who's written extensively about his community and is one of a couple of authors to have their support/cooperation. I think there's probably a very sound tactical reason that the Iranians picked on the British Navy and not the U.S. forces.

My opinion on most of the threads you start, newguy, is that you use this board as a dumping ground to vent your raging rants, with little in the way of constructive criticism or substantive proposals. But I don't read most of your posts anymore so it's not an issue unless a moderator gets a complaint.

I have not had a complaint against me I made it clear back in November that I was stressed about my situation.

Since you say you do not read what I post anymore, I am sorry that you have closed your mind.

Oh by the way, I am not crazy about a draft, I sure was not excited back in the Vietnam days when I had a draft card and a lottery number, BUT I knew if I was called I understood that it was my duty to serve. That said I decided to go off to college and teach in an inner city school district for almost 30 years, dodging american made bullets the last 10 years.

Also I spent many years doing work with my fathers VA hospital in Coatsville, PA.
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