|
|
04-09-2007, 01:14 PM
|
#1
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
|
Our shameless culture
Interesting article - I think is says something about many of us.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...shameless.html
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:36 PM
|
#2
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,588
|
Re: Our shameless culture
I won't criticize anything said by a captive. Coersion can be unbelievably brutal.
A government needs to measure its response in the face of such provocation. You shouldn't react thoughtlessly.
You shouldn't ACT thoughtlessly, either. In my opinion, however, the British Navy should have been prepared for the worst when it sent that team to the Iranian boat. If you aren't ready to send the ship to the bottom, don't challenge it. This wasn't a simple inspection of papers by the port authoritiy of the Thames, for chrissake.
__________________
I have outlived most of the people I don't like and I am working on the rest.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
|
#3
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 140
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Just wait until Iran finally launches its nuclear weapon at Israel. Then, you will be reading reports titled "How did this happen". Iran was just testing the waters when they took the British hostages. They wanted to gage world reaction and they got it.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:42 PM
|
#4
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,250
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Had a BRIEF conversation on this topic with my "civilian" friends while they were still held captive...who think that the captives did the right thing. I was appalled! Guess Her Majesty's military Code of Conduct training is not like ours.
__________________
Make no mistake, my friend, it takes more than money to make men rich. - A. P. Gouthey
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:47 PM
|
#5
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
|
Re: Our shameless culture
saving face or save your neck. gee. that's a tough one.
sticks & stones.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin
"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:56 PM
|
#6
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Re: Our shameless culture
What a load of bollocks. This isn't a couple of schoolboys daring each other into a fight behind the bleachers. This is an encounter between two nuclear-armed nations, one of which is fully capable of shutting down the world economy. The UK did the right thing in the face of stupid provocation, and the Iranians eventually decided to correct their mistake. Running into an armed conflict over this minor squabble would have been a huge mistake.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:56 PM
|
#7
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Their close proximity to the rest of western Europe has sissified even the brits. They betrayed their country to save their own hides (which isn't even true because there is no way in hell they would have hurt them)
It wasn't that long ago that a soldier would have been shot for that behavior. Churchill just rolled in his grave I'm sure.
Iran made their point loud and clear to the rest of the Muslim world.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:57 PM
|
#8
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 718
|
Re: Our shameless culture
People are really brave when they aren't in the same situation.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 01:59 PM
|
#9
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwsinron
People are really brave when they aren't in the same situation.
|
You know what? As a CHILD I had a gun pointed in my face during a mugging and I never stooped as low as those pussies. That was without any formal military training.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:04 PM
|
#10
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
You know what? As a CHILD I had a gun pointed in my face during a mugging and I never stooped as low as those pussies. That was without any formal military training.
|
I know a full-grown adult who was shot dead for the same behavior.
But he was really really brave, and the word "pussy" is not on his tombstone. So I guess he wins, although I'm not sure how his family sees it.
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:05 PM
|
#11
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
You know what? As a CHILD I had a gun pointed in my face during a mugging and I never stooped as low as those pussies. That was without any formal military training.
|
And I'm sure your balls are all the bigger for it, tough guy.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:07 PM
|
#12
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
|
Re: Our shameless culture
This thread needs more Jack Bauer.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:09 PM
|
#13
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
|
Can't tell, but at least I will be able to sleep the rest of my life having some self respect. Something I hope none of those folks will be able to do.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:11 PM
|
#14
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Can't tell, but at least I will be able to sleep the rest of my life having some self respect. Something I hope none of those folks will be able to do.
|
Why? Why would you wish them ill after what they went through?
What was the outcome of compliance with their captors' demands? They stayed in one piece long enough to be released. Sounds like a reasonable choice to me.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:19 PM
|
#15
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Can't tell, but at least I will be able to sleep the rest of my life having some self respect. Something I hope none of those folks will be able to do.
|
On the contrary, I hope that they followed whatever code of conduct they were required to follow, and that they're capable of training their own troops to do the same some day. If a gun-toting guy orders me to play ping-pong while they roll video then that's what I'll do if it'll comply with the code of conduct while my bosses are trying to get me back home. And I'll expect all my shipmates to join in, too.
During their Hanoi Hilton sojourn, Stockdale used to promulgate the "price of the day". It was the amount of torture that the POWs were expected to submit to before they answered their interrogator's questions or signed the documents or made the videos or whatever. The idea was to preserve a measure of self-respect by paying a price while maximizing the number of live POWs. He was the senior POW and the other POWs had seen (or heard) what Stockdale was capable of doing, so the vast majority of them followed the policy.
Tell you what-- can I bundle up your comments and send them to one of my old leaders, Paul Galanti, for his commentary?
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:24 PM
|
#16
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Why? Why would you wish them ill after what they went through?
What was the outcome of compliance with their captors' demands? They stayed in one piece long enough to be released. Sounds like a reasonable choice to me.
|
Are those on the left the people always telling us that the end doesn't justify the means? Weakening the position of an entire country to save your own hide seems like a weak position to me. To me it's a sign of the times. This wouldn't have happened 20,30 or 40 years ago.
How long did it take them to crack, 24 hours? They're no John McCain.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:28 PM
|
#17
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
This wouldn't have happened 20,30 or 40 years ago.
|
Well, then let's go back a little further:
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -- George S. Patton
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:32 PM
|
#18
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Are those on the left the people always telling us that the end doesn't justify the means? Weakening the position of an entire country to save your own hide seems like a weak position to me. To me it's a sign of the times. This wouldn't have happened 20,30 or 40 years ago.
How long did it take them to crack, 24 hours? They're no John McCain.
|
Dude, I think you have some "issues" here that you should probably address with professional help. That's the only way I can imagine where you are coming from.
You really think the smart choice would be to hold out until they broke you? How does that help you, your family, or your country? So you have utmost respect for the Taliban types who keeep up their resistance through the 37th waterboarding?
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:34 PM
|
#19
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Well, then let's go back a little further:
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -- George S. Patton
|
Nords, you're a betting man. What do you think the chances were that they would have killed one of those prisoners? If this were afghanistan it would be a different story entirely (if you read a little history you will see that they are without a doubt the allstars when it comes to killing POWs) Iran has a political agenda and there isn't a chance in hell they would have hurt them.
|
|
|
Re: Our shameless culture
04-09-2007, 02:50 PM
|
#20
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
|
Re: Our shameless culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
If a gun-toting guy orders me to play ping-pong while they roll video then that's what I'll do if it'll comply with the code of conduct while my bosses are trying to get me back home. And I'll expect all my shipmates to join in, too.
|
i never knew this and glad to hear it from a military guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Can't tell, but at least I will be able to sleep the rest of my life having some self respect. Something I hope none of those folks will be able to do.
|
how can you claim self respect if you do not respect life itself? it is one thing to be brave. it is another to look life in the face and say "you're not worth losing a little self respect over."
life will always be bigger than you & pride goeth before the bullet.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin
"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
Similar Threads
|
Thread |
Thread Starter |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
Germ Culture
|
TromboneAl |
Health and Early Retirement |
24 |
01-15-2007 03:46 PM |
Culture of Complaint
|
yakers |
Other topics |
18 |
01-24-2006 07:44 AM |
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|