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10-20-2016, 10:59 AM
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#41
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,698
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Isn't "Real Time Fact Checking" an oxymoron? Actual fact checking means studying the issue, checking your sources, weighing the matter, considering other input, and probably running it by a committee for consensus to try to remove personal bias.
"Real Time Fact Checking" seems to come down to - this is what I think right now, as I speak, w/o checking and w/o anyone to play devil's advocate.
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"Actual" fact checking is redundant - actual means based on fact. "Real time" describes when it takes place, and there is no reason facts cannot be verified in real time. In fact, I think the "Watson" series on Jeopardy was an excellent example of real time fact checking, presented as entertainment.
As presented in the context where we see it today, "Real Time Fact Checking" is a programming feature, and if it was software, we would probably call it "buggy". It might be the start of something, or just fade away. Clearly, this Version 1.0 needs improvement. 
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10-20-2016, 12:41 PM
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#42
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ATL --> Flyover Country
Posts: 6,649
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HBO has a fairly new show (it's marketed as a nightly news program) that is put together by the Vice Network. They do tend to have a political leaning, but nonetheless, many of the stories they have run are pretty interesting. Last night's episode detailed the folks that run the "Politifact" website and how they do what they do. They followed them during the first two debates and showed how it was done in "real time" (many of the assertions have been made over and over). They are about as "real time" as a human can get when it comes to politics.
There...I kept it down the center, right? So no Porky? 
__________________
FIRE'd in 2014 @ 40 Years Old
Professional Retiree
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10-20-2016, 01:15 PM
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#43
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
"Actual" fact checking is redundant - actual means based on fact. "Real time" describes when it takes place, and there is no reason facts cannot be verified in real time. In fact, I think the "Watson" series on Jeopardy was an excellent example of real time fact checking, presented as entertainment.
As presented in the context where we see it today, "Real Time Fact Checking" is a programming feature, and if it was software, we would probably call it "buggy". It might be the start of something, or just fade away. Clearly, this Version 1.0 needs improvement. |
Watson is also a great example of the compute power needed for real time fact checking with a small set of data. Watson only had 4TB* of data in 16TB of main storage(RAM). While storing all your data in memory can be done, it's pretty expensive.
*only 4TB, not sure if this still exists. but I recall mainframe VSAM having a hard limit of 2GB in a file. 
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10-20-2016, 01:43 PM
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#44
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Was there a debate or something? [emoji12]
An alarming number of people don't seem interested in "facts", real-time or otherwise...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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10-20-2016, 02:04 PM
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#45
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
OK, this obviously has political ties, but I'm really thinking strictly in terms of logic and, well, I guess intelligence. So I'm putting it in the "other" sub-forum. Separate from any specific political debate or discussion.
Isn't "Real Time Fact Checking" an oxymoron? Actual fact checking means studying the issue, checking your sources, weighing the matter, considering other input, and probably running it by a committee for consensus to try to remove personal bias.
"Real Time Fact Checking" seems to come down to - this is what I think right now, as I speak, w/o checking and w/o anyone to play devil's advocate.
Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
-ERD50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo2
Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone
But it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me
Let me take you down
'Cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about
Strawberry Fields forever
The Beatles
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Does anybody really know what time it is,
Does anybody really care...about fact checking
The fun starts at 1:42. 
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
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10-20-2016, 05:03 PM
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#46
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Also, in the justice system there is not a determination of innocence... the jury finds either guilty or not guilty.... not guilty does not mean innocent.... it means that the prosecutor could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt the person was guilty.... but it does not change the fact that the person either did or did not do whatever....
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Actually - in some cases the judge can put in an motion of "factual innocence". I know because I was declared factually innocent in a jury trial. Jury acquitted me. Citing officers were shown to have lied on the stand (they were not allowed to hear each others testimony - and 3 officers gave 3 different accounts... significantly different... in order to "prove" I was guilty.) The prosecutor was pretty disgusted with the officers and agreed immediately to the motion.
I hope to never be a defendant again - but at least on that charge, I was declared "factually innocent".
See California Penal code 851.8.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
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10-20-2016, 05:39 PM
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#47
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
Actually - in some cases the judge can put in an motion of "factual innocence". I know because I was declared factually innocent in a jury trial. Jury acquitted me. Citing officers were shown to have lied on the stand (they were not allowed to hear each others testimony - and 3 officers gave 3 different accounts... significantly different... in order to "prove" I was guilty.) The prosecutor was pretty disgusted with the officers and agreed immediately to the motion.
I hope to never be a defendant again - but at least on that charge, I was declared "factually innocent".
See California Penal code 851.8.
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Well, we HAVE to know now...What did you NOT do?
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
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10-20-2016, 07:57 PM
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#48
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
Actually - in some cases the judge can put in an motion of "factual innocence". I know because I was declared factually innocent in a jury trial. Jury acquitted me. Citing officers were shown to have lied on the stand (they were not allowed to hear each others testimony - and 3 officers gave 3 different accounts... significantly different... in order to "prove" I was guilty.) The prosecutor was pretty disgusted with the officers and agreed immediately to the motion.
I hope to never be a defendant again - but at least on that charge, I was declared "factually innocent".
See .
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Interesting... I had not heard of this before.... but from what you say the jury found you not guilty.... it took the judge to declare you innocent....
I wonder why the judge even allowed it to go to the jury... or why your lawyer did not request the charges be dropped...
I did take a look at the code you cited... and that shows that they have to destroy the arrest info... which to me is a good thing...
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10-20-2016, 10:14 PM
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#49
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,886
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Not "real Time", but somewhat related - Google adding a "Fact Check" label to some news stories:
Google News battles era of spin with fact check label | TechConnect
https://support.google.com/news/publ...#fact-checking
Interesting, there is some mark-up capability to support this from a technical view, but I wonder how valuable this will be in practice. I don't see how they can prevent biased 'fact checking' - it's not easy to define, and it's not easy to get people to agree to what an unbiased view would be.
-ERD50
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10-21-2016, 05:18 AM
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#50
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,713
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The data behind the fact-checking--who takes care of that database?
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10-21-2016, 05:34 AM
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#51
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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10-21-2016, 06:43 AM
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#52
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo2
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
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Is that Latin for " Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"?
-ERD50
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10-21-2016, 06:49 AM
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#53
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huston55
Well, we HAVE to know now...What did you NOT do?
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Spill the beans, rodi! 
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10-21-2016, 04:51 PM
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#54
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,288
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There's even a book on the subject now for Pete's sake!
https://www.amazon.com/Deciding-What.../dp/0231175078
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Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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10-21-2016, 07:29 PM
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#55
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
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Who's fact checking the book that's the definitive guide to fact checking?
This is a bad dream.
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10-21-2016, 11:13 PM
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#56
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
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Here Rodi, let me help you along to your confession.
Once, while in college, I was going so fast, and so far over the speed limit, on a buddy's motorcycle, that the policeman who stopped me didn't give me a ticket...he took me to the county jailhouse. He didn't put in a cell; I think he just wanted to scare the bejeezus out of me (which he did). He let me go with a warning after my buddy came to get me (and his bike) and pleaded ignorance (my ignorance  ).
See, we all have a little convict in us. 
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
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10-22-2016, 09:38 AM
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#57
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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10-22-2016, 11:12 AM
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#58
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dutchess County
Posts: 1,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
The prosecutor was pretty disgusted with the officers and agreed immediately to the motion.
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The only thing the prosecutor was disgusted with was the "FACT" that the officers didn't collude with each other before giving their testimony or the"FACT" that he failed to prep the officers before trial which is collusion on another level.
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10-22-2016, 11:20 AM
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#59
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Steve
The only thing the prosecutor was disgusted with was the "FACT" that the officers didn't collude with each other before giving their testimony or the"FACT" that he failed to prep the officers before trial which is collusion on another level.
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And the data to support that conclusion is.....?
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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10-22-2016, 11:31 AM
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#60
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dutchess County
Posts: 1,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
And the data to support that conclusion is.....?
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Anecdotal life experience. Two officers from two different agencies giving verbatim testimony, yup, no collusion there I'm sure.
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