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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 01:00 PM   #21
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

And don't forget all the exercise they managed to get in their day by either running after their prey or being chased by it. Not to mention digging for roots, searching for water, climbing trees and bushes for nuts and berries.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 01:03 PM   #22
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
*Genetics and lifestyle impacts on these issues completely swamp food most of the time. *Since we do not completely understand the impact of genetics and lifestyle, we cannot adequately remove these factors from investigations on food.

Good luck with your friend. *
Thanks SG, interesting stuff. *We aren't talking about eating too many processed foods and burgers. *We are talking about whole grains, beans and taters. *

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
If you don't want to do a bunch of research, you can probably create your own pop-science
Most of the diseases that kill us these days are the progressive diseases of old age. * *Evolution has *nothing* to say about old age, because selection doesn't work on old people.

* * * * ** * * ** * * *

That's about as far as you can get based on cavemen: we're omnivores, we can take abuse, and we have few defences against long-term progressive diseases of old age (like cancer, heart diseases, etc). * *After that, we're on our own. * The cavemen can't help us.
Good, simple to use counterargument. *
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 01:15 PM   #23
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Just like most animals... they spent most of the day find food and eating... not much else to do..

And being no expert.. I do remember seeing a study on the risks of death.. and the only item that had a big impact was smoking... almost all other risks were almost non-existent (small)..
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 01:30 PM   #24
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Martha,
Sorry, no science for you here, just an extension of wab's observations:
-- Longevity, beyond a certain point, is subject to adverse natural selection pressures. Once an individual is beyond child bearing/child rearing, there is very limited advantage to the overall population for them to hang around and consume resources. Humans already have an extraordinary lifespan beyond their normal childbearing years, but this is largely a modern occurence (brought largely by improved nutrition).

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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 02:20 PM   #25
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

According to the Wikipedia discussion on life expectancy (FWIW), the biggest increases in life expectancy came from the reduction in infant mortality.* Though sewers didn't hurt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy


My friend's argument against eating grains/legumes/potatoes has also to do with glycemic load and that these starches do a big sugar dump on you which is bad for you.


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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 02:43 PM   #26
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Paleo man as in most pre-Industrial cultures including many 3rd world cultures existed on diet of foodstuffs that were native to their locale and could be collected or killed. One important thing to consider was diseases caused by the collection and eating of uncooked foods. Bacteria, molds and viruses can pass easily from animal or plant to human via contact or through eating of uncooked or undercooked contaminated items. Water was also easily contaminted by other humans or animals who all shared the same water sources. Diseases frequently spread from human-human or animal-human could easily be fatal since medical treatment of these diseases was limited or even fatal itself. Likewise, plants can carry molds that create toxins that can be fatal or can cause cancer. Others may have been contaminated by human or animal waste that is then eaten causing the spread of disease.

We may deal with processed foods and all the demons that come from it but we also have little to fear from these foods with respect to fatal diseases. There is a price for everything. Unless you raise it yourself, wash it yourself, store it yourself, and cook it yourself you are trusting others in a long chain of hands to do the right thing and keep you from getting sick.

While diet may have some affect on longevity, freedom from a deadly food-born disease will allow you to live long enough for something else to kill you.

Maybe we can move on the genes, viruses and environmental effects on DNA damage and the effect on future generations.

Eat a balanced diet, balance eating with exercise, balance sleep with being awake and you have good foundation in prevention of many physical problems including obesity.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 02:50 PM   #27
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Quote:
We both read and studied these journals.* Reading this technical literature taught me:* 1) that esentially everything lay people think they know about diet and absolutely everything printed about diet in popular sources is BS.
Do these lay people include Doctors too? They above all others seem to knee jerk all over the place with every little pop-culture/mass media diet-as-god data point. Usually in a desperate attempt to get you on some kind of medication without acquiring any relevent medical data at all on the patient besides a single and for-all-time cholesterol test.

The* they attempt to deride, with a baseless appeal to tehir own authority, learning anything by reading about it., especially on the internet,* *even if your source is a medical journal... oblivious to the fact that the knee-jerk dataless diet religion he's attempting to impress me with is easily readable in pop media ON the internet! But thzt's OK I guess, as long as I take the "medication".
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 04:20 PM   #28
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
SG, given your past reading, it sounds like diet is a relatively minor effect of longevity and health, assuming one does not go to extremes. *What would you/your DW suggest as a general "good" diet? *Everything in moderation? *Something different?
Whatever works for you to keep your weight at a healthy level and your bodily functions in a normal range. People are different. We have different tastes, different metabolic rates, different digestive capability, different stresses, . . . Why would anyone be led to believe that one diet works for all?
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 04:26 PM   #29
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Do these lay people include Doctors too? . . .
Yes. It's funny you mention that. I had forgotten this. But the dieticians in the hospitals used to get together and talk about how ignorant the doctors were about diet. It's not like diet is taught in med school. The dieticians had lots of stories. I remember one about a doctor who had prescribed a low salt diet to a heart transplant patient, but when questioned by the patient said that 6 slices of bacon for breakfast was not a salt problem. When confronted by the dietetics staff, he refused to admit he was wrong.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 04:46 PM   #30
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by Martha
Basically, you eat what paleolithic man ate--meat, vegetables, fruit and nuts.
so this diet trend genetically adapted over a period of 2 million years but we only controlled fire for less than half that time?

if that means i have to eat a half-cooked mountain goat, i'm just going to throw up.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 04:48 PM   #31
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

not half cooked, raw! Billy Goat Gruff Tar-Tar, anyone?
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 04:50 PM   #32
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

What a thread. I would have blown right by it but there were so many responses that I just had to see what's up. Since there is no real science to find and everybody is jumping in with their own 2 cents, I will toss in my own lament.

I have concluded that a balanced diet, with lots of multi-colored veggies, coupled with a little tasty meat, and a pile of beans and fruit would be great. The problem is, I can't stand veggies. I have tried. I'm the main cook - I cook veggies. I even discovered that I like the taste of crisp, stir fried veggies -- for about two bites. After that I gag. No matter how hard I try I can't stomach almost any vegetables. I concluded that if I tried to survive through a healthy diet I would blow it and die.

So, I eat what I like -- lots of meats and fish with tasty sauces; a fair amount of rice and potatoes; eggs and sausage; a lot of chocolate; a lot of wine; a lot of diet pop. I couple that with Konsyl (Metamucil with twice the fiber) and a boat load of vitamins and hope for the best.

About half of my family is just like me. The other half love every kind of food. No apparent differences in nuture. I think its genetic. But they all last until the mid 80s and then crash - I hope that works for me too.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 05:01 PM   #33
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
What a thread. I would have blown right by it but there were so many responses that I just had to see what's up. Since there is no real science to find and everybody is jumping in with their own 2 cents, I will toss in my own lament.

I have concluded that a balanced diet, with lots of multi-colored veggies, coupled with a little tasty meat, and a pile of beans and fruit would be great. The problem is, I can't stand veggies. I have tried. I'm the main cook - I cook veggies. I even discovered that I like the taste of crisp, stir fried veggies -- for about two bites. After that I gag. No matter how hard I try I can't stomach almost any vegetables. I concluded that if I tried to survive through a healthy diet I would blow it and die.

So, I eat what I like -- lots of meats and fish with tasty sauces; a fair amount of rice and potatoes; eggs and sausage; a lot of chocolate; a lot of wine; a lot of diet pop. I couple that with Konsyl (Metamucil with twice the fiber) and a boat load of vitamins and hope for the best.

About half of my family is just like me. The other half love every kind of food. No apparent differences in nuture. I think its genetic. But they all last until the mid 80s and then crash - I hope that works for me too.
AMEN!
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 05:02 PM   #34
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum
but we only controlled fire for less than half that time?
Ahh, the start of Global Warming.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 06:27 PM   #35
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by Martha
My friend's argument against eating grains/legumes/potatoes has also to do with glycemic load and that these starches do a big sugar dump on you which is bad for you.*
I buy the bit about glycemic load. But IMO this just means it's wise to limit portion sizes of these foods as regularly dumping large amounts of sugar in the blood stream does lead to some degenerative diseases. It's not necessary to avoid them altogether. I also eat modest portions of whole grains instead of refined, eat modest portions of beans (which I favor because they are high in fiber) and modest portions of starchy vegetables. More importantly I make sure to eat proteins and healthy fats at meals because these slow release of sugars into the blood.

I don't limit milk products. I am not lactose intolerant therefore I eat dairy and take advantage of the protein and calcium this food offers. Those of us of western descent developed lactose tolerance as a benefit IMO - so I intend to take advantage of this particular genetic mutation. Lactose tolerance is in fact a genetic mutation.

I definitely believe in managing the blood sugar load from each meal. Humans have obviously not evolved sufficiently to handle the glycemic load of the typical American diet (cause by overeating as well as foods/drinks super high in refined carbohydrates - added sugar and starches). Type 2 diabetes is growing at an alarming rate. Just look around you and there are so many Americans around (of all ages too!!) sporting the large belly/middle fat that indicates hyperinsulemia/metabolic syndrome/type 2 diabetes.

The type 2 diabetes/metabolic syndrome is as much (if not more) a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle. Sedentary muscles are not able to take up sugar from the blood as efficiently as exercised muscles. Sedentary lifestyle may in fact be the major culprit - it may be that humans can actually handle a diet high in refined carbs as long as they are sufficiently active.

Personally, since limiting the amount of refined carbohydrates in my diet, I was able to lose excess weight (especially around the middle), became less hungry overall (which makes it easier to eat fewer calories), never experience blood sugar "crashes" and I avoid the "sleepies" I used to experience after a meal. So basically eating this way makes me feel better - and that's good enough for me!

Longevity is not a goal of mine. Quality of life is.

Oh yeah - and by avoiding/limiting refined carbs (milled grains and sugar) I have less plaque build-up on my teeth now when I visit the dentist.

Personally, I think each of us just has to figure what kind of diet makes us feel better on a daily basis.

Audrey
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 06:33 PM   #36
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Longevity is not a goal of mine.* Quality of life is.
well said.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 07:01 PM   #37
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Well . . . I've spent a lot of time studying archaeology over the past several decades.
See?* Told ya Steely Dan/SG/sgeeeee would have some good information.* And heck, he has to be right about SOMETHING eventually, and this is likely to be it!

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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 07:10 PM   #38
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by donheff
So, I eat what I like -- lots of meats and fish with tasty sauces; a fair amount of rice and potatoes; eggs and sausage; a lot of chocolate; a lot of wine; a lot of diet pop.* I couple that with Konsyl (Metamucil with twice the fiber) and a boat load of vitamins and hope for the best.
What about fruit?* Fruits might taste good to you, and they have fiber, too.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-30-2006, 08:28 PM   #39
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by Martha
My friend's argument against eating grains/legumes/potatoes has also to do with glycemic load and that these starches do a big sugar dump on you which is bad for you.*
Grains and most legumes don't have an especially high GL.* Potatoes do.* *And so do some other starchy veggies like peas.* *There is some evidence that high-GL foods are a factor in type-II diabetes and heart disease, and there is a proposed mechanism of action as well (high GL -> insulin spikes, which over time will lead to insulin resistance).* * But if you're already avoiding refined sugars and processed foods, then you're way ahead of the game.
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets
Old 05-31-2006, 06:20 AM   #40
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Re: Paleo and "blood type" diets

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Originally Posted by flipstress
What about fruit? Fruits might taste good to you, and they have fiber, too.
I like various fruits but I have a hard time remembering to eat them. I think I will try to set up some sort of routine -- an apple a day kind of thing. Maybe some pineapple juice to wash down the vitamins.
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