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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-29-2007, 01:44 PM   #61
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
... you'd be vulnerable to a perjury charge for simply failing to remember correctly, or actually not remembering when the "interrogators" believe you should be able to.
But you wouldn't be convicted of perjury unless a jury of your peers, after reviewing
the evidence, determined that you actually lied on purpose. This is what happened
with Mr Libby.

Funny that the right-wing now thinks perjury isn't such a big deal, when it was the
crime of the century when Clinton lied. Of course, Clinton lied about sex with a
consenting adult. Libby lied about the treasonous "outing" of a CIA agent to
punish a man who dared to question the "intelligence" used to dupe this nation
into the disastrous war that now mires us down.

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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-29-2007, 01:54 PM   #62
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

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Originally Posted by RustyShackleford
But you wouldn't be convicted of perjury unless a jury of your peers, after reviewing
the evidence, determined that you actually lied on purpose. This is what happened
with Mr Libby.

Funny that the right-wing now thinks perjury isn't such a big deal, when it was the
crime of the century when Clinton lied. Of course, Clinton lied about sex with a
consenting adult. Libby lied about the treasonous "outing" of a CIA agent to
punish a man who dared to question the "intelligence" used to dupe this nation
into the disastrous war that now mires us down.
"Treasonous outing?" So why wasn't he, or anyone else, charged with any crime? Could it be because no crime was committed, or because there's insufficient evidence of it?

But, the bottom line is--being charged with acrime is no fun. Why should Monica Goodling expose herself to the risk?

Somewhat related to the original post, here's a link concerning the conduct of the surge. It's from a military-related site, so consider the source. It is interesting that the Iraqi Air Force is back in business, at least in a very limited way.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003387.html
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-29-2007, 02:01 PM   #63
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

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Originally Posted by samclem
It's charming that the strongest civil libertarians/backers of the ACLU are now sniping "if she hasn't done anything wrong, why is she taking the fifth?" Funny--a little.
Ah, you presume too much about my affiliations.

I think there is more than enough basis to issue subpoenas. When organizations do things out of the 'norm' it raises visibility. Once people notice they ask why. To accuse the employees of poor performance imputes their professional credibility and they will defend themselves.. what would you do?

And I do understand the difficulty in remembering details when testifying, I have testified on a couple of occasions and have been on a Grand Jury. Problems occur when there are attempts to spin the truth, to be evasive. I talked about convicting a person for perjury on another matter with an attorney. He said that it is difficult to get perjury convictions, the evidence must be overwhelming for juries to convict.

Libby is an attorney, and a able one at that. I think the truth would have put his boss at risk and his actions were predicated on a roll of the dice.. may or may not be prosecuted, if prosecuted may or may not be convicted, if convicted will be pardoned.

I agree that right-wing Republicans themselves made perjury a big deal in the Clinton affair. Hoist by their own petard.

With respect the the relative importance of this issue the the Clinton affair (in both meanings of the phrase), this puts the integrity of the justice system at risk.. the fundamental bulwark of our freedom. Here is a link to a national news commentary today: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/03...y2622741.shtml

[edited to add link]
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-29-2007, 05:34 PM   #64
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
"Treasonous outing?" So why wasn't he, or anyone else, charged with any crime?
I like to think that our leaders would answer to a higher standard than "not charged
with any crime". Certainly Clinton didn't do that with Ms Lewinsky, but I still
think not-quite-criminal behavior having to do with consensual sex is not as bad
as what went on reagrding Ms Plame. Of course, perjury is the supposed crime in
each case, but I think it's reasonable to judge the "badness" of pergury by what
it was in reference to.

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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-29-2007, 07:02 PM   #65
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

what concerns me is this is just the stuff the administration is getting "caught" doing - what is going on under the radar?

unless they are like my teenager who has a high ratio of getting caught for bad behavior - it's kind of sad - bad at covering tracks - or just does it cuz he can't help himself...hmm that is starting to sound like the administration...
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad
Old 03-30-2007, 09:16 AM   #66
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Re: Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
It's charming that the strongest civil libertarians/backers of the ACLU are now sniping "if she hasn't done anything wrong, why is she taking the fifth?" Funny--a little.
Becaus it's one of the only parts of the Constitution that still works.............. :P :P

An attorney recently told me: "When you start quoting the Constitution, you know you've lost your case"......................

It's HARD to bring up the Constitution today, because judges don't care about it at all, just case law and precedents............ :P
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