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Old 07-08-2013, 08:18 PM   #41
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Nothing wrong with your plan, but your card information can be stolen after the card is scanned.
Correct and until we get chip/pin technology, the information can be taken in a variety of ways (during and after scanning). I'm just minimizing the opportunity for it happening again.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:58 AM   #42
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My new card from Penfed is chip and pin which will allow it to be used abroad but I don't think it will stop it from being copied in the USA until merchants switch to chip and pin
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:40 AM   #43
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The solution to this (at least until the crooks manage to hack it) is chip technology with point of sale devices that are brought to your table, requiring your PIN input. I am sure it will happen in the US within a very short time.
Amen!
I was in British Columbia last month, and was delighted to use this technique in a couple of restaurants. Canada seems way ahead of the US in this.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:15 AM   #44
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USAA will send you a chip and pin MC if you ask for it. Another great C&P card is from State Department FCU, if you qualify for membership.

Keep in mind if you forget the pin while overseas you are out of luck. This happened to me with my USAA C&P card in France recently. They do not have a means to retrieve it - only option is to generate a mailing to your residence. Luckily we always have backups, but just a warning.

By the way a pos terminal being brought to your table is not secure from fraud either.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:36 AM   #45
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USAA will send you a chip and pin MC if you ask for it. Another great C&P card is from State Department FCU, if you qualify for membership.

Keep in mind if you forget the pin while overseas you are out of luck. This happened to me with my USAA C&P card in France recently. They do not have a means to retrieve it - only option is to generate a mailing to your residence. Luckily we always have backups, but just a warning.

By the way a pos terminal being brought to your table is not secure from fraud either.
With Penfed I ordered my C&P card online and was able to choose my own PIN, so I was able to pick one that I should remember. (no guaranties of course).


With C&P you can't make a copy by simply swiping through a reader. (at least I don't think so) The card has to be pushed into the slot of a reader and remains there while you enter the PIN.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:46 PM   #46
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Its not clear that the US companies providing chip credit cards are also providing PINs. Someone I talked to at BofA VISA hotline seemed to think you didn't need the PIN in Europe unless you were using a debit card.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #47
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Its not clear that the US companies providing chip credit cards are also providing PINs. Someone I talked to at BofA VISA hotline seemed to think you didn't need the PIN in Europe unless you were using a debit card.


Correct but I have been caught out 3 times, twice on business, once at a family outing, where I said I would pay but my Amex and my Visa card failed to work and I had to get someone else to pay until I could get to an ATM
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:09 PM   #48
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Correct but I have been caught out 3 times, twice on business, once at a family outing, where I said I would pay but my Amex and my Visa card failed to work and I had to get someone else to pay until I could get to an ATM
I mean - they think you didn't need the PIN with the chip card. Guess I'll find out when I try to get one - and then no way to test it in the US? This is aggravating!
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:04 AM   #49
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I mean - they think you didn't need the PIN with the chip card. Guess I'll find out when I try to get one - and then no way to test it in the US? This is aggravating!
You'll be fine without the chip in most places. If the place will take Amex it means they will have a swipe machine for VISA and MASTERCARD as well. A few years ago we were on holiday in rural Spain with our daughter and her husband and some places still only had dial-up modems for the cards. Those places took chip cards but her swipe card was not accepted.


Anywhere touristy and you'll be just fine.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #50
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We just returned from traveling around France for nearly a month, including some pretty rural areas.
Used Chase Marriot card which has a chip but no pin as well as another Chase card without a chip.
Had no problem with any merchant using swipe devise, even some small town speedy mart where we got fuel.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:08 PM   #51
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One caution: If you want to buy a ticket on French Railways, their machines only accept chip and pin cards. You can pay with a non chip card at the ticket office, but queues can be very long. We had to wait the best part of an hour once at the Marseille SNCF station.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #52
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Peter's comment about French rail is right-on. We also found that most cities subway and trams will only take chip and pin cards. Likewise, the tollways in France need cash if you do not have chip and pin cards--furthermore only certain toll lanes will take the cash, rest are all card or prepay pass.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:19 AM   #53
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We also have a card that never leaves the house which is used for all the automated payments.
Having a card that never leaves home and is only used for bill pay is smart. Fido Visa just cancelled my card and reissued a new one (3rd time in 2 years) and updating the automatic bill pay once again is a hassle, so I'm going to do this now. My USAA MC, which we stopped using when we got the F* Visa, is now our billpay card.

How businesses update their payment options is interesting. Amazon takes the new card and is ready to go. Comcast takes over a month before the new card is fully processed.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:29 AM   #54
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Having a card that never leaves home and is only used for bill pay is smart. Fido Visa just cancelled my card and reissued a new one (3rd time in 2 years) and updating the automatic bill pay once again is a hassle, so I'm going to do this now. My USAA MC, which we stopped using when we got the F* Visa, is now our billpay card.

How businesses update their payment options is interesting. Amazon takes the new card and is ready to go. Comcast takes over a month before the new card is fully processed.
Sorry to hear that Michael, we learned the hard way that it is better to dedicate one card solely to automatic bill payment.


I'm not surprised to hear about Amazon because the previous time we had our card details stolen someone set up an account in a name that was not mine but Amazon didn't care that they used my card and didn't even email me to let me know. I had to discover it myself by seeing the fraudulent purchases on Amazon - they don't care.


One thing I have considered doing for the card I use and hand over is to erase the security number on the back and write in a new one that will mean something to me but not a thief. eg if code is 569 I would replace it with 670 (each digit +1) or 965 (reverse the digits).


Good idea or bad?
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:42 AM   #55
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Sorry to hear that Michael, we learned the hard way that it is better to dedicate one card solely to automatic bill payment.

I'm not surprised to hear about Amazon because the previous time we had our card details stolen someone set up an account in a name that was not mine but Amazon didn't care that they used my card and didn't even email me to let me know. I had to discover it myself by seeing the fraudulent purchases on Amazon - they don't care.

One thing I have considered doing for the card I use and hand over is to erase the security number on the back and write in a new one that will mean something to me but not a thief. eg if code is 569 I would replace it with 670 (each digit +1) or 965 (reverse the digits).

Good idea or bad?
Every little bit helps, provided you remember! The part you can't control however is the lifting of the information of CC from the magnetic strip. The 3 number code is embedded in the strip itself, also.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #56
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Every little bit helps, provided you remember! The part you can't control however is the lifting of the information of CC from the magnetic strip. The 3 number code is embedded in the strip itself, also.
Yep, that was what I wondered about. My last card was obviously swiped by a reader and duplicate(s) made, and I wasn't sure if the 3 digit code was included in the magnetic strip details, or if the thief had simply made a note of them.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:02 AM   #57
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Yep, that was what I wondered about. My last card was obviously swiped by a reader and duplicate(s) made, and I wasn't sure if the 3 digit code was included in the magnetic strip details, or if the thief had simply made a note of them.
I know there is better technology out there than the magnetic strip, but it is amazing despite all the technological advances in everything, that this is still the centerpiece of the CC payment system in the US four decades after its creation. I read an interesting article about the strip a week or so ago. It described everything that was embedded in the strip. The 3 number code is on it, but you can take some solace in knowing apparently your SSN isn't!
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:08 AM   #58
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I know there is better technology out there than the magnetic strip, but it is amazing despite all the technological advances in everything, that this is still the centerpiece of the CC payment system in the US four decades after its creation. I read an interesting article about the strip a week or so ago. It described everything that was embedded in the strip. The 3 number code is on it, but you can take some solace in knowing apparently your SSN isn't!
Good info, thanks for that.


The new card from Penfed is CHIP and PIN for use in Canada and Europe so at least CC companies do have the new technology and from earlier posts in this thread have told the merchants they need to have their equipment up to date by Oct 2016 for stores and 2017 for gas stations.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #59
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One thing I have considered doing for the card I use and hand over is to erase the security number on the back and write in a new one that will mean something to me but not a thief. eg if code is 569 I would replace it with 670 (each digit +1) or 965 (reverse the digits).


Good idea or bad?
I put a small strip of very sticky and thin white tape over my 4 digit number on my AMEX card. I keep the actual number in my phone as a contact name if I forget it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:48 PM   #60
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How businesses update their payment options is interesting. Amazon takes the new card and is ready to go. Comcast takes over a month before the new card is fully processed.
It is driven by business requirements.

The core of the Comcast billing system is likely a mainframe-based batch system with elements that might have been developed as early as the 1960's, but more likely at least ten or so years later. These types of systems still live on in utilities (phone, gas, electric), insurance applications, and others. They have usually been updated around the edges (for example, now you enter your CC or checking account information into a web application rather than filling out a form or talking to a customer service agent, but the information just gets forwarded into the old batch systems, and you get nice statements printed on crisp laser printers rather than on impact printers with worn out ribbons). These updates are usually ongoing additions rather than complete replacements. As such, these application systems are enormously complicated, with rarely one person or department completely knowing how the whole thing works start to finish. They can be difficult to work with.

A lot of people ask why these companies do not just replace these antiquated systems with some newer technology. The answer is that it is usually not worth the cost or the risk. How much more cable, phone, and internet could Comcast sell if the CC updates were immediately effective, rather than taking a whole billing cycle? Probably not a whole lot.

Amazon, on the other hand, came along in a time when newer technologies were already available. Imagine Amazon on an older batch-based system. Nobody would buy anything if a transaction took a month to complete.

I'll diverge a little here, so quit reading if you have no interest.
IBM's first and second generations of mainframes (which were considered the first feasible general purpose computers for widespread use) were designed around whatever hardware the engineers could produce reliably and at an acceptable cost to the customer. The problem was that all software had to be rewritten when going to a new generation. This impeded sales. The 3rd generation (the S/360) was yet another new design, but this time IBM designed a computer architecture (OS/360) to which the hardware platforms had to conform. This enabled IBM to make a range of computers, all conforming to this architecture, and this allowed customers to update and upgrade their hardware without having to rewrite a lot of programming. The promise was that application code written for OS/360 would be upward compatible with future versions of this architecture. With rare exception, this promise has been kept even until now. While there have been many revisions and additions to the original OS/360, most application code written for OS/360 (with some exceptions) will work properly with current operating systems and current hardware. The major advantage of this is that code that conformed to this architecture in the 1960's and beyond (actually 1963 or 1964, I believe) will still function today. The major disadvantage is that code that conformed to this architecture in the 1960's and beyond will still function today, and this is one of the reasons that some of these older systems do not die.
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