Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
People Don't Know How to Work
Old 11-29-2007, 10:27 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,078
People Don't Know How to Work

Another bizarre article from Ben Stein: http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/54620.

Perceived problem: some of his "friends" have little or no visible means of supporting themselves, and are therefore lazy (Q.E.D.).

His solution: forced labour camps, where shiftless young people would be compelled to "shovel cow manure or dig ditches or sort laundry or mail - actually work every day for eight weeks in the summer", and would be indoctrinated with lectures about "the merits of work".

This is more than a bit rich, coming from someone who makes a living penning silly columns.
__________________

__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2007, 10:38 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,896
Thank goodness. I thought he was talking about us for a minute
__________________

__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fireup2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,186
Well, I am taking a "mental health day" (aka playing hookey!) Been out of town for a month...slow when I was back in office earlier in week - taking today to leisurely cook, unpack, etc...still in pajamas! These days are nice when not planned! So, I am not adhering to the proper work ethic according to this article!
__________________
Make no mistake, my friend, it takes more than money to make men rich. - A. P. Gouthey
Fireup2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 11:36 AM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
Eyerishgold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 222
I just wasted a few minutes of my life that I'll never get back reading that crap. What was the point of that article? It sounded like more of a rant than anything else. Get some new friends if you dislike the ones you currently have.

The address should have been http://finance.yahoo.com/moron/article/yourlife/54620.

__________________
Eyerishgold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 11:37 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Jumpin Jeebus on a pogo-stick. Where does this guy get off?

Oh yeah, and I love this one:

"People who develop the habit of hard work don't become bums or drug addicts, and don't wind up in middle age with suicidal self-loathing. "

I gota disagreee with you there, Bob. Especially about the suicidal self-loathing thing in the hard working...
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 12:12 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,078
I suspect that Mr. Stein wouldn't think much of most of the people on this board. After all, he has to grind away working (well, what passes for work in his world) in his 60's so that he can make payments on his many houses, while we are financially independent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireup2025 View Post
Well, I am taking a "mental health day" (aka playing hookey!) Been out of town for a month...slow when I was back in office earlier in week - taking today to leisurely cook, unpack, etc...still in pajamas! These days are nice when not planned!
Enjoy your day off. Think of it as training for ER!
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 12:38 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyerishgold View Post
What was the point of that article? It sounded like more of a rant than anything else.
Obviously, the author was practicing to be a poster on the FIRE forum where rants bitching about rants are the trend........
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 12:41 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Ben is pretty sarcastic most of the time......hard to know if he's being serious, facetious, or a mix of both.........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 12:49 PM   #9
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 192
Economists and bureaucrats who ventured out into the countryside after the Revolution were horrified to find that the work force disappeared between fall and spring. The fields were deserted from Flanders to Provence. Villages and even small towns were silent, with barely a column of smoke to reveal a human presence. As soon as the weather turned cold, people all over France shut themselves away and practiced the forgotten art of doing nothing at all for months on end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/op...=1&oref=slogin
__________________

NotSoonEnough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 12:54 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,078
His plan reminds me of the Khmer Rouge's social engineering experiment.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:08 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoonEnough View Post
Economists and bureaucrats who ventured out into the countryside after the Revolution were horrified to find that the work force disappeared between fall and spring. The fields were deserted from Flanders to Provence. Villages and even small towns were silent, with barely a column of smoke to reveal a human presence. As soon as the weather turned cold, people all over France shut themselves away and practiced the forgotten art of doing nothing at all for months on end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/op...=1&oref=slogin
Interesting article. The author pokes at Sarkozy trying to get the French to work more. I think he is missing an obvious tool: get the population in debt and they will have no choice but to be productive.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:37 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North-Central Illinois
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
I suspect that Mr. Stein wouldn't think much of most of the people on this board. After all, he has to grind away working (well, what passes for work in his world) in his 60's so that he can make payments on his many houses, while we are financially independent.
I don't think he'd have much of a problem with those of us that hang around here. For the most part we've applied ourselves enough to be able to become FIRE'd, and we don't have to depend on someone else's nickel to keep us afloat. And I don't think for a second, that Ben is still w*rking because he needs to, he's doing what he does because he wants to.

The municipality the I was employed by, hired 25-30 kids each summer. Of that number fewer than 10 had ANY w*rk ethic, and only 3 or 4 had enough of one not to be a royal PITA. If anyone would mention that fact to management, they would give the standard (unacceptable) response of "Ah, they're just kids." So I myself wouldn't argue against a program (camp) where kids could work and learn a thing or two about the work ethic.

I learned at a young age by working for my Grandad every summer (starting around age 12) digging holes, putting in forms, and mixing and pouring concrete. We started right after an early breakfast, and continued until supper time.....we ate a sack lunch on the job site. I did that up through the first couple of years of HS, then got a job doing demolition at an old brick factory.

And that's just the way it was....and we liked it like that! ()
__________________
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:40 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonie View Post
I learned at a young age by working for my Grandad every summer (starting around age 12) digging holes, putting in forms, and mixing and pouring concrete. We started right after an early breakfast, and continued until supper time.....we ate a sack lunch on the job site. I did that up through the first couple of years of HS, then got a job doing demolition at an old brick factory.

And that's just the way it was....and we liked it like that!
See
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:53 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
Ah yes - reminds me of some threads we have had on this very forum in days past.

Brings a tear to me eye!



heh heh heh - Ben Stein is a powder puff compared to us. The best restaurant on the planet was time(summer) in the logging camp - and they paid me!
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 02:04 PM   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
His solution: forced labour camps, where shiftless young people would be compelled to "shovel cow manure or dig ditches or sort laundry or mail - actually work every day for eight weeks in the summer", and would be indoctrinated with lectures about "the merits of work".
So He wants to bring back Stalin's work camps?

Quote:
Economists and bureaucrats who ventured out into the countryside after the Revolution were horrified to find that the work force disappeared between fall and spring. The fields were deserted from Flanders to Provence. Villages and even small towns were silent, with barely a column of smoke to reveal a human presence. As soon as the weather turned cold, people all over France shut themselves away and practiced the forgotten art of doing nothing at all for months on end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/op...=1&oref=slogin
My grandparents were Alpine farmers and it is true that while they worked really hard between April and October, they enjoyed relaxing during the cold winters. No it was not two hundred years ago. It was 20-30 years ago. So were they sloths who could not get their bums out of bed? Nop. They lived following nature's rhythm. They rose with the sun and went to bed at sunset. In the summer days were much longer, so they slept less, went to work very early in the morning and worked in the fields until late at night. They took cows to the pasture, milked them twice a day, fed the chickens, took care of the bee hives, grew a large vegetable and fruit garden, did a lot of canning for the winter months, padded up their reserves of wood for the stove, harvested hay for cows to eat in the winter... There was a lot to do and they often worked 15-16 hours a day during the summer. In the winter, days were much shorter and therefore they woke up later in the morning and went to bed earlier at night. On a farm in the Alps, there is not much to do during the winter with feet of snow on the grounds for most of the winter months, so people took it easy. Cows and chickens stayed inside, the vegetable garden was reduced to a few staples like cabbage, there was no hay to be harvested and no wood to be collected... So the winter months were reduced for domestic tasks, like mending, repairing tools, wood working... They lived on the potatoes and canned goods they harvested during the summer, eggs from the chicken and milk/cheese/butter from the cows.
Off course they could live like that because they had no debt (not even a mortgage), virtually no monthly bills to pay and lived on a shoestring.
But let's look at it for a minute: For about 6 months of the year, they worked 16 hours a day, so even if for the next 6 months they didn't do anything (which was not he case), they would still have worked 8 hours a day on average over the entire year, like any modern joe...
Off course there are other jobs where people work like mad for a few months and then relax a bit the rest of the year, like fishermen...
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 02:22 PM   #16
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
And by the way, if you look at "primitive" cultures (ones that have not been "spoiled" by modernity), you will find out that the majority of their "work" consists of hunting and growing/gathering food. The rest of their time is spent chilling out with the rest of the family/clan. As a civilized society we have decided to place a higher value on stuff than on our own sanity. Those are the rules of the game, and there is no end to it for most people. Work more and more, so that you can buy more and more. We look down on the "sloths" who refuse to play the game while secretly envying their freedom. It's sad.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 03:00 PM   #17
Recycles dryer sheets
bots2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
And by the way, if you look at "primitive" cultures (ones that have not been "spoiled" by modernity), you will find out that the majority of their "work" consists of hunting and growing/gathering food. The rest of their time is spent chilling out with the rest of the family/clan. As a civilized society we have decided to place a higher value on stuff than on our own sanity. Those are the rules of the game, and there is no end to it for most people. Work more and more, so that you can buy more and more. We look down on the "sloths" who refuse to play the game while secretly envying their freedom. It's sad.
Couldn't have said it better...
__________________
bots2019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 03:40 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
Off course there are other jobs where people work like mad for a few months and then relax a bit the rest of the year, like fishermen...
It always seeme to me that Alaskan Fisherman had great jobs. In a decent year they made a lot of money for themselves (shares) and a lot for the boat owner. Of course every now and then a boat sank and lives were often lost. I had two friends who drowned when Alaskan crab boats went down.

A safer business that also had a built in long vacation was Alberta or Montana wheat farmer. Go to Arizona for the winter, come back in early spring to check things out and prepare for planting. If they owned the land, they usually didn't have to sweat prices all that much either.

I have been retired so long that I really can't remember what it felt like to fight the daily fight. I have to admit that work sucks. It's just that it usually is the means to money, which doesn't suck.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 04:36 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Once upon a time migrant stoop labor, logging, pulling on the green chain in the old lumber mill were pleasant summer opportunities to demonstrate your stamina and phys ed as we referred to summer jobs between stretches of school/college.

Totally different midset if you knew you were destined for a white collar job.

Ah yes to be young, strong and smart ass once again.

heh heh heh - you had to watch those fishing seasons back in the 60's - one buddy on shares ended up hand to mouth with a part time job during the school year - whereas another went the previous year(great season) and did college and a good used Corvette. Couple of high school buddies - both graduated eventually.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 05:41 PM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
For about 6 months of the year, they worked 16 hours a day, so even if for the next 6 months they didn't do anything (which was not he case), they would still have worked 8 hours a day on average over the entire year, like any modern joe...
Off course there are other jobs where people work like mad for a few months and then relax a bit the rest of the year, like fishermen...
Yep, exactly! I know a farmer here that typically works around the clock during spring planting and fall harvest. Once all the gear is winterized and put away in the fall he heads off to Nords' neighborhood for the winter.

Ben appears to be saying that work for the sake of work is a good thing, and the harder the work the better it is. I would like to think he's being sarcastic, but it sure doesn't read that way...
__________________

__________________

NotSoonEnough is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
70% of people work for a "toxic boss" cute fuzzy bunny Young Dreamers 30 07-21-2006 01:23 PM
DC, MD, DE, PA and NY people get together?? Enuff2Eat FIRE and Money 7 03-07-2006 10:45 AM
Few people know this TromboneAl Hi, I am... 2 05-23-2005 05:45 PM
What do you tell people you do? farmerEd Life after FIRE 49 03-11-2004 10:30 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:20 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.