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Old 05-21-2008, 08:41 AM   #41
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One of the first things my gun teacher told me was to never draw a gun on anyone if you weren't prepared to actually use it. I know how to use a gun and am an active NRA member, and I still plan an escape route or what to do wherever I live. I never really want to have to draw that gun, but would if I was in that much danger (yeah, it did take some soulsearching to come to that conclusion as a woman, but I did). I'm totally with LeatherneckPA on this issue.

**For those of you who believe in our Second Amendment right (the right to bear arms), why are you not joining the NRA? And why are you voting for Obama who will knock out your Second Amendment rights should he get in? Help me to understand.
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:04 AM   #42
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**For those of you who believe in our Second Amendment right (the right to bear arms), why are you not joining the NRA? And why are you voting for Obama who will knock out your Second Amendment rights should he get in? Help me to understand.
Off to the Soapbox!
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:09 AM   #43
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I think if you are stupid enough to break into someones house you deserve to die.
You are, of course, free to think whatever you like (about any subject). But the law is not on your side on this issue.

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One of the first things my gun teacher told me was to never draw a gun on anyone if you weren't prepared to actually use it.
Or more generally, never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.

I remember seeing many magazine photographs taken of author Jerry Ahern by his wife, showing a close-up of the muzzles of various loaded revolvers that he was pointing right at the camera. Unsafe practices like that are no less than stupid, and had no place being published in magazines where they would be seen by impressionable readers.
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:12 AM   #44
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But the law is not on your side on this issue.

That depends on what state you live in.

Castle Doctrine in the US - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:14 AM   #45
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That depends on what state you live in.

Castle Doctrine in the US - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what country.
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:00 AM   #46
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That depends on what state you live in.

Castle Doctrine in the US - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you believe such legislation gives blanket immunity to civil liability, I have to respectfully disagree. See e.g. the Yoshihiro Hattori killing, where a gunman was acquitted of murder but subsequently held liable for $650,000 in damages: Hattori v. Peairs, 662 So.2d 509 (La. Ct. App. 1995)).

And being criminally charged and tried is no picnic, even if one is ultimately acquitted (which is not a sure thing).
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:25 PM   #47
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unless you live in dukes of hazard country any self defence shooting even within your house is still different shades of gray in most state laws.. and civil suits are seperate issues.

like the instruction booklet that new york city gave us with our permits has a blurb about when you can use lethal force and the sentence reads when being burglurized in your home or a place under your control.

just try that in nyc and see the the grand jury indictment.......
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:01 PM   #48
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Here is my thinking, samclem: If so many on this board so strongly seem to believe in their right to bear arms, why are they not backing it up with some real action? The NRA, the second biggest lobbying group, spends alot of money to defend our right to bear arms, and the money has to come from people who do believe in the 2nd Amendment. I assume that is all those folks on this board who express their opinions on shooting intruders. Gonna be mighty hard to shoot anyone if they aren't allowed guns and their rights are taken away.
The NRA magazine has had lots of articles about the Presidential candidates and their positions on the 2nd Amendment lately, of course. It is but one issue on the slate, but, for some, an important one. I simply point out the obvious in my post.
My point is why not stand up for what you believe in if the 2nd Amendment is important to you?

OR we can do absolutely nothing, continue as we always have and just lose our right to bear arms altogether. Then you can pound on the burglar's big, hairy chest with your fists to make him leave, I guess.

OR let me put it simpler: Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

(Okay...I am getting off the soapbox now...)
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:30 PM   #49
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Orchid, maybe I should not respond until you post this to the soapbox, but...

Do you *really* think that any of the current candidates has enough power to even suggest that Congress should take away your 'right to bear arms altogether'.?

I think you grossly overestimate their power, even if that was their desire.

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The NRA, the second biggest lobbying group, spends alot of money to defend our right to bear arms,
Sooooo, how would the next prez get enough support in Congress, against such a strong lobby? I can't imagine it. I can imagine the outrage from gun owners if they tried.

<the following is a joke - OK?> Orchid, you strike me as just a tad too delusional and paranoid to be trusted with a firearm.... (OK - just kidding!)>

Seriously, when was the last time a gun law was passed that actually infringed on the rights of people who just legitimately want to own a firearm for sport or self protection? I'm not talking about 'give them a millimeter and they'll take a mile' thing - a real issue.

-ERD50
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:32 PM   #50
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I've been hearing "they" want to take away our guns (including assault rifles) for more that 30 years. Congratulations on falling for the propaganda.

Lately I've also heard that :"they" want to take away our SUVs.

And both are guaranteed in the Bible, The Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:10 PM   #51
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Seriously, when was the last time a gun law was passed that actually infringed on the rights of people who just legitimately want to own a firearm for sport or self protection?
There are plenty of these laws at the local level (city ordinances banning handguns or setting conditions for weapon/ammunition storage and locks that make them unusable for self defense, from a practical standpoint).

The "assault weapon" restrictions were just bad legislation, and done on a federal level. The legislation really just banned weapons that had a certain appearance, since two weapons could have identical functionality and one was banned, the other was not.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:13 PM   #52
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I didn't say I thought that any President or the powers that be could really take away our gun rights. I just said some candidates want to abolish them. However, I want Fabio, and I don't see him calling me. Just cause you want it, doesn't make it happen.
Gosh, I've never been called delusional and paranoid before. I have been called shallow once...by a guy who had no depth whatsoever and was using every woman he met for money.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:10 PM   #53
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I didn't say I thought that any President or the powers that be could really take away our gun rights. I just said some candidates want to abolish them.
Ok, but this line:

OR we can do absolutely nothing, continue as we always have and just lose our right to bear arms altogether.

and saying that gun owners better start throwing money at the NRA gave me a different impression. It gave me the impression that you thought you were in some imminent danger of losing your right to own firearms if a certain candidate got elected.

Now, had you said that you don't want to vote for someone that isn't on your wavelength on firearm ownership issues, OK.

A bit OT, but I *know* I can find an issue on *any* candidate that is important to me that I don't agree with. If I use that as a criteria, I will vote for no one. Which I may do, but that's another story.

As far as your second comment, geez, I BRACKETED it with 'joke' caveats. I guess you gun owners really *can't* take a joke can ya'

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Old 05-22-2008, 06:20 AM   #54
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A bit OT, but I *know* I can find an issue on *any* candidate that is important to me that I don't agree with. If I use that as a criteria, I will vote for no one. Which I may do, but that's another story.

As far as your second comment, geez, I BRACKETED it with 'joke' caveats. I guess you gun owners really *can't* take a joke can ya'

-ERD50
I'm with Orchidflower. Gun rights are THE first gate I use when choosing a candidate. If they fail that first test I don't bother looking at their position on any other issues.

Which of course means I have nobody to vote for this fall is the presidential election.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:55 AM   #55
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I do feel strongly about the right to carry; however, I sit down and draw up a list of those issues I feel are important in any election, look at the positions of each candidate to the few issues I strongly believe in, and then vote for the one who comes closest to my own beliefs. That is the only way I can vote as there is NEVER any candidate who I am ever in total agreement with. NEVER...darn it. But I have to vote (it's my duty and right...and privilege), so I do it the way it works best for me.

I use strong language to make a POINT. If you are going to spout off alot of macho bravado that you would shoot someone who comes into your house like a burglar, then, baby! you had better be sure you are following the State's laws you live in and the Federal laws--unless you want to end up in the pokey, yourself. And in the State of Illinois it could easily happen if you shoot someone in your house.

I'm in Illinois now, and they really dislike gun ownership here (they discourage it to put it mildly); which, frankly, I feel tramples on MY right to protect myself in a dire situation. Heck, I never even thought of joining the NRA till I got here. The longer I am here--and the higher the crime rate rises here--the more irritated by Illinois gun laws I get. I'm outta here when my duties are done for sure.

So, yes, ERD50, a State can REAAAALLY limit your gun usage and make it very difficult for you. I see Illinois has done it. It does and can happen.

ERD50, I guess you just didn't get me, but it's cool.

Thanks, Saluki9, for understanding the importance, anyway.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:26 PM   #56
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Gonna be mighty hard to shoot anyone if they aren't allowed guns and their rights are taken away.
Well, that is the whole point of gun control legislation.

I agreed that this thread hijack discussion should be moved to the Soapbox.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:04 PM   #57
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I always consider 2nd Amendment support first when choosing a candidate. I'm free as long as I can take up arms against an oppressive government.

I've been an NRA lifer for years and write my elected reps frequently griping about the newest proposed gun laws.

The majority of my guns are outlawed in the next state to the south (Mass). Most are military style semi automatic rifles (AR15, M1 carbine, M1 Garand, M14, etc) that I'd either shot in the Army or learned about there. I'd consider my rights abolished in MA, and will never live there. Heck, I try not to drive there or even visit.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:30 AM   #58
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I'm with Orchidflower. Gun rights are THE first gate I use when choosing a candidate.
And that is your prerogative. That is why we each get a vote. I choose to take a broader look, but that's just me.


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So, yes, ERD50, a State can REAAAALLY limit your gun usage and make it very difficult for you. I see Illinois has done it. It does and can happen.
But Orchid, you originally put this in the context of Obama and the Presidential campaign. Federal rights, not state rights. Did Obama get laws passed in IL that limited your freedoms (I honestly don't know)? If so, are you concerned that he would be able to get federal laws passed that would infringe upon your rights? I'm just trying to understand your concerns.

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Old 05-23-2008, 04:05 AM   #59
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you should see new york city
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:44 AM   #60
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But Orchid, you originally put this in the context of Obama and the Presidential campaign. Federal rights, not state rights. Did Obama get laws passed in IL that limited your freedoms (I honestly don't know)?
He certainly tried hard, does that count?

It's hard in IL to infringe on our second amendment rights more than they already have.
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