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Old 11-14-2014, 09:18 PM   #41
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A few years ago we cut off contact with a family we were friendly with when DS was in elementary and middle school. As we got to know them, we realized wife is a chain smoker and a flaming alcoholic and we couldn't get through to her. The husband was an enabler and refused to acknowledge her problems, even with her falling down the stairs drunk a couple times, breaking bones. We broke away slowly then eventually told them not to invite us to anything anymore about 4 years ago. The scary part was the younger son who became more and more a psychopath as he grew up. Inpatient child psych unit didn't help. He just got out of prison this month for pulling a knife at the home last year.

I'm in a dilemma and thinking of them with this thread tonight because through a mutual friend's Facebook post I found out the husband died this morning. (He was in his mid 60s). DS and the older brother keep up limited contact. Older brother is ok, out of the house, smart but his upbringing has scarred him. The two that are left in the house are drunk mom and psychopath son. I feel sad for the family but still need to stay far, far away.

Unlike bipolar and schizophrenia, there is no treatment for personality disorders. Some are more dysfunctional than others. One can temporarily get along with a narcissist by flattering them. People with borderline personality disorder are exhausting, sometimes suicidal. But psychopaths, they're in another league altogether.




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Old 11-15-2014, 12:50 AM   #42
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Father (now deceased) was bipolar and an alcoholic.
Mother (now deceased) was an alcoholic.
Older sister has severe OCD and is an alcoholic.
Younger sister is bipolar.

What was the question again?
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Old 11-15-2014, 11:27 AM   #43
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I have worked with a couple of coworkers who were diagnosed Bipolar. Up until the diagnosis, some times they were very effective, then other times depressed and sort of paranoid. One in particular could be very dynamic most of the time, then suddenly get so depressed that she thought everyone was trying to get her fired or take her husband. I remember in one episode, she asked me if I thought she was crazy. I told her as a friend, something was wrong and she was thinking crazy and she really needed to see a doctor or therapist before returning to work. She did and was diagnosed. She did much better on meds and seeing a therapist, but still has occasional battles even today. She works at another company now. It must be such a tough road.


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Old 11-15-2014, 11:33 AM   #44
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This (italics mine) is true of many people in every path of life. People do what works for them and gets them what they want; I don't think it means the person is mentally ill. What about those who allow themselves to be manipulated, either from cowardice, or because they kind of enjoy it (e.g. gain comfort by having someone tell them what to do, rather than think of it themselves?) Are they mentally ill, too? One starts to feel as if almost everyone except oneself must be insane...

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I came to the conclusion HPD is just another form of Sociopathic behavior. These people learn how to get the attention they crave by manipulation. It was easy to see how she made it into management.
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Old 11-15-2014, 11:50 AM   #45
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My only comment here is to encourage everyone to be gentle and avoid judgement on the person. A mind turned against itself is a horrid thing. Remember that how you process the world around you literally defines your personal reality.

Someone who is really going thru these things - bipolar manic, depression, anxiety, paranoia -- is in no way enjoying their life. Depressions bring suicidal thoughts (and actions), physical pain, etc. Manic "ups" bring consequences. Anxiety brings wrenching fear, insomnia and a constant state of "fight or flight" alertness. Many don't know they have these disorders because that is simply how they've always processes the world around them. To another poster's point, these things also evolve with age.

In general our society sucks at dealing with mental health issues. I'm not a fan of an over-medicated society -- I do subscribe to the "suck it up" approach to life -- but I think and hope that a generation from now we will be wiser, more vigilant and less judgmental. We'll learn that much of this is just variants I people's neurogenetics just like we're learning about dyslexia and other things. "I'm bipolar" will wind up in the same zone as "I'm diabetic."
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Old 11-15-2014, 01:21 PM   #46
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I am also pretty much "face blind". I have a horrible time remembering names or faces. Numbers, however, are a different thing. I still remember my high school locker combination from 50 years ago. The mind is a fascinating thing.
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Old 11-15-2014, 01:59 PM   #47
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It seems to me that labeling someone with a personality disorder is just a more powerful way to say that you don't like them.

If two people don't get along, is there some judge who can say which one has the personality disorder?

Ha
I agree with this. I think the medical community and society tend to medicalize behaviors too much.

However, my DW's stepmother is a legitimate hoarder. We haven't be allowed in their house for a decade. My DW has glimpsed inside the front door and hears some details from her father. DW is worried that if her father falls ill she won't be able visit and help take care of him. He stepmother is also a "cat lady". She spends a lot of money and time feeding and caring for cats at a local community college. I don't think "cat lady" is a behavior disorder but I could be wrong.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #48
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Like any other "collecting" behavior - it's a disorder when it is harming either the cats, or the lady, or both.

My sister and BIL have 12 cats, 2 dogs, and a lot of tropical birds in a small house. The animals are healthy, segregated appropriately (the parrots would eat the cats alive), the litter boxes are cleaned daily, etc. I won't say the house smells especially good, but one doesn't need a gas mask They also have nesting boxes outdoors for half a dozen feral cats, which they have managed to catch and take to the vet to be spayed/neutered. In addition, my BIL used to volunteer at a cat rescue shelter. He took a veterinary course for pet owners and learned to give cat immunizations and first aid. Naturally, they have St. Francis of Assisi statuettes prominently displayed both indoors and out.

Taking care of these animals makes them happy, and certainly benefits the critters. There is zero resemblance to the "pet hoarder" horror stories one reads about from time to time, where the human is malnourished and ill, the building is falling apart, and half the animals are dead or dying.

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I I don't think "cat lady" is a behavior disorder but I could be wrong.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:31 PM   #49
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Like any other "collecting" behavior - it's a disorder when it is harming either the cats, or the lady, or both.

My sister and BIL have 12 cats, 2 dogs, and a lot of tropical birds in a small house. The animals are healthy, segregated appropriately (the parrots would eat the cats alive), the litter boxes are cleaned daily, etc. I won't say the house smells especially good, but one doesn't need a gas mask They also have nesting boxes outdoors for half a dozen feral cats, which they have managed to catch and take to the vet to be spayed/neutered. In addition, my BIL used to volunteer at a cat rescue shelter. He took a veterinary course for pet owners and learned to give cat immunizations and first aid. Naturally, they have St. Francis of Assisi statuettes prominently displayed both indoors and out.

Taking care of these animals makes them happy, and certainly benefits the critters. There is zero resemblance to the "pet hoarder" horror stories one reads about from time to time, where the human is malnourished and ill, the building is falling apart, and half the animals are dead or dying.
I agree with this. The cat thing isn't a health problem but it does definitely interfere with their marriage and social life to the point that a psychologist would probably say that it isn't mentally healthy. Hoarding is the real problem.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:38 PM   #50
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It seems to me that labeling someone with a personality disorder is just a more powerful way to say that you don't like them.

If two people don't get along, is there some judge who can say which one has the personality disorder?
Obviously, both sides can say it, and both may be right.

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Old 11-15-2014, 05:38 PM   #51
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Prosopagnosia is estimated to affect up to 2% of the population.
A matter of degree rather than an absolute, often a matter of stress and consequent interference with social relations and certain jobs that rely on personal contact with many persons.
I have had some personal experience in this, as a challenge in my work as a sales promotion manager that involved meeting with hundreds of different people in many different parts of the country. Extra work in taking notes, studying pictures before meetings, learning workarounds to avoid using names, so that few would notice or feel slighted.
Now, it's easier to blame it on advancing dementia, (which I am also experiencing).
A major in Psych leaves me with one certainty... that it's easy to overthink or overanalyze psychological disorders. A work in progress.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:16 PM   #52
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Prosopagnosia is estimated to affect up to 2% of the population.
A matter of degree rather than an absolute, often a matter of stress and consequent interference with social relations and certain jobs that rely on personal contact with many persons.
I have had some personal experience in this, as a challenge in my work as a sales promotion manager that involved meeting with hundreds of different people in many different parts of the country. Extra work in taking notes, studying pictures before meetings, learning workarounds to avoid using names, so that few would notice or feel slighted.
Now, it's easier to blame it on advancing dementia, (which I am also experiencing).
A major in Psych leaves me with one certainty... that it's easy to overthink or overanalyze psychological disorders. A work in progress.
I certainly can't tell from your writings that there is any evidence of dementia. I have a bit of experience with this. My mother has been in a nursing home for 3 years afflicted with such. As a 65 year old youngster I would be most interested in your always very illuminating views in reference to this topic.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:50 AM   #53
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Prosopagnosia is estimated to affect up to 2% of the population.
I had to Google "prosopagnosia".

Prosopagnosia - YouTube
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:21 AM   #54
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Quote: Originally Posted by haha
It seems to me that labeling someone with a personality disorder is just a more powerful way to say that you don't like them.

If two people don't get along, is there some judge who can say which one has the personality disorder?


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I agree with this. I think the medical community and society tend to medicalize behaviors too much.
Sorry. If haha was referring to all PD types, what he stated was one of the most ignorance thing I've seen from him. If one had not experienced a close encounter with an NPD, one does not really know how bad a PD can be. It is impossible to live with one unless you are also an NPD - misery loves company. If haha was referring to HPD and its wiki description, it may make sense. But I don't know much about HPD as much as I know about NPD.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:27 AM   #55
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Robnplunder - so true on the NPD. He thinks everyone else is crazy and that he is the only normal one around.
Exactly. My NPD family member thinks everyone is not doing right for him when everyone has deserted him b/c of his NPD ways. Number of us has tried to make him see a doctor and his answer has been always, why do you all think I am crazy?
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Old 11-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #56
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As is often my observation, determining what is "normal" can be tricky. But I've read that if you take your worst day, then multiply it by 1000, and you will have some understanding of bipolar disorder. Plus, there's often anxiety, panic, and obsessive-compulsive tendencies as well.


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Old 11-16-2014, 09:01 AM   #57
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Very interesting -- thanks. How does one get to the raw data in 23andme?

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One more comment on the bipolar front.

Some folks with depression and/or bipolar disorder, that are non-responsive to the normal meds given, might have a genetic mutation of the MTHFR gene. This is an issue in our family, and it's VERY easily treated by giving the person bio-available forms of b vitamins. The defect causes a defective version of the enzyme that breaks down b-9 and b-12 into a form that can cross the blood/brain barrier... The defective enzyme only breaks down about 10% effectively. Without these methylized forms of the vitamins the neurotransmitters aren't properly regulated... (It also prevents the proper breakdown of homocystines - which can lead to heart/stroke issues).

So if you know someone who has issues with depression/bipolar/OCD, etc... and they're not responsive to meds... suggest they do genetic testing for the MTHFR gene. You can get the info from 23andMe (although you have to go look at the raw data.)
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:51 AM   #58
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Very interesting -- thanks. How does one get to the raw data in 23andme?
I suspect getting the data from 23andme was laid right out up until the FDA (and wotinhell does the FDA have to do with genetic testing) put the stop on 23andme "dispensing medical advice" by providing information to each person on their own private genetic makeup. That is something that should only be available by going to a doctor who can order each genetic test individually - no fannying about getting all the tests at once at a modest price! Or being able to alert your doc to your private genetic predilections.

Only a little bitter about our wasted $200....
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:14 AM   #59
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I suspect getting the data from 23andme was laid right out up until the FDA (and wotinhell does the FDA have to do with genetic testing) put the stop on 23andme "dispensing medical advice" by providing information to each person on their own private genetic makeup. That is something that should only be available by going to a doctor who can order each genetic test individually - no fannying about getting all the tests at once at a modest price! Or being able to alert your doc to your private genetic predilections.

Only a little bitter about our wasted $200....
There is a company that does medical analysis for 23andme.com customers about for less than $10. I believe they get the data directly from 23andme.com for their report. I did it for DW & me. For details, please search for 23andme.com in this site and look for my posts.

The report says I don't have a longevity gene, DW have 12 times risk of an eye disease, etc.. Very long report which have not deciphered fully yet.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:41 AM   #60
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The best advice a doctor has on NPD is to stay away from them.....
Which is why it is so awful if you're stuck working with some one with a personality disorder, especially if that person is your boss, and is allowed by management to get way with all the sociopathic toxic behavior.

Ah well, I guess not having to be around the toxic boss anymore makes ER all the more enjoyable!
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