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Old 11-25-2008, 08:51 PM   #41
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Pirate pics.

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Old 11-26-2008, 11:52 AM   #42
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Before we impose Pax Americana again, I suggest that people read up on the USS STARK and maybe refresh our Somalia memories through the video "Blackhawk Down". I'm too chicken to watch it because my nephew the Army Ranger says it made him cry.

There are more than enough putative allies in that part of the world who have a far better understanding of the situation and its remedies. They know that they can sit on their assets waiting for Americans to get suckered into the politics. If they really want to go kick pirate butt protect their sovereign assets then they can form a task force and send us an invitation. The "1000-ship Navy" does not mean "America goes first"...
I think you are agreeing with me- this was exactly my point. Some small country would fund terrorists just to attack the US interest, then they would get money from alquada and similar to fight the US.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:05 AM   #43
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pirates

A few months ago, an American called into our local talk show. He sailed his private yacht in the South Seas.

He said the reason it was easy for pirates to capture ships was because local law forbid the sailors to carry firearms.

The talk show host found this hard to believe. The American sailor said the " laws of foreign countries are very strict"!

The Amercan sailor said if he was caught carrying a weapon, he would be arrested and subject to "foreign laws". Which can be very harsh.

This conversation sounded hard to believe. But I find it hard to believe Pirates can so easily capture a huge moving ship.

So this American, sailor, might be right. Strange, no REPORTER, has asked the obvious question, " How come the ships are not armed".
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:47 AM   #44
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Additional news on the ship that the Indian Navy sank - it wasn't a pirate ship, it was ship that was being held by pirates.
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The International Maritime Bureau said the Ekawat Nava 5 had been captured by pirates earlier in the day on 18 November and the crew was tied up. One crewman was found alive after six days adrift but 14 are still missing.
The British Navy had sent out an alert on the situation, but it is unclear if the INS Tabar had received that information before she ran across the Ekawat Nava 5.

From what I see going on in Mumbai this morning, it looks like the Indian hostage policy is, "we ain't got no hostage policy". And I don't have a problem with that. Not that I would want myself, friends or family to ever be in that position, but I do understand it and the practical reasons behind it. It is a policy that comes with political hazards though.

The Thai government is displeased that the Indian Navy blew up one of their fishing vessels full of fishermen.
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Mr Wicharn said the Thai foreign ministry had summoned the Indian ambassador to issue a complaint.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:10 PM   #45
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They only do it because they are getting away with it.

The Saudis could put one of these to run Flight OPs off of the tanker when it goes past Somolia. Once they are past Somilia use an escort ship ferry the bird up to escort another tanker.

Once a couple of them are blasted out of the water... it won't happen again. Other ships will completely avoid those tankers once they see the new game plan

Fairly low cost and deadly.

MH-6 Little Bird - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 11-27-2008, 03:39 PM   #46
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I don't think helicopters are the answer. They are wonderful platforms for their niche, but very expensive to operate (figure 5-10 X the expense of a fixed wing acft in maintenance costs and logistics per flight hour.) Tactically, operating a single helicopter without another one for support is generally not a good idea, particularly a single-engine helicopter, particularly over water. Then, multiply by the number of tankers coming and going and you'd have quite a bill, the need for highly trained pilots/crew to conduct engagements, possibly land on a vessel, etc, etc. And, at the end of the day, only the tankers would be protected, not the scores of container ships and breakbulk carriers out there.

The pirates are now operating several hundred miles offshore. Having these small helos constantly aloft and shadowing a vessel at 10-15 knots for days is a no-go.

I did wonder if maybe some on-call airborne fire support might work. A small fixed wing gunship (maybe a twin turboprop similar to an AN-24 or even something as small as a CASA 212) fitted with simple side-firing dual .50 cal MGs (or a lightweight 23mm cannon (GSh-23) to give them some standoff from the bad guys) could remain on station for a long time. Given the large area to be covered and the relatively short reaction time required, it would be impractical to have a plane in position to foil every attack, but it would sure be able to stop a lot of them and significantly increase the risk of this pirate business.

But the legal stuff would have to be cleared up first.
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Old 11-27-2008, 04:52 PM   #47
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Shoot I watch 24 and the other shows on TV. All that has to be done is for the NSA to redirect their "keyhole" satellites to that area and look for activity, Focus down on the actual pirates, using their facial recognition software, they radio to the Seals and Marines to track by sea and land till the pirates can be taken out with minimal muss. Then they post the pirates pictures on the Internet as warning for all the would be pirates to plan a different career.
Oh wait, that might be already filmed and due to be next seasons show.
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:11 AM   #48
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So many people posting So many solutions to problems they know little or nothing about.

Whitestick is right! We are all experts on everything because we watch TV! Prosecuters have complained about how hard it is to get a conviction because juries expect cases to be wrapped up like CSI. 'What no DNA evidence within seconds of finding a hair?' the DA is incompitent!

I don't have a clue what the solution to the pirate problem is. I have a son that has stood 'pirate watch' with the Marine Corps, so I know we are doing something. I would not even think about telling those in command how they sould pursue this subject.
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:48 AM   #49
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So many people posting So many solutions to problems they know little or nothing about.
Kibitz to live, live to kibitz!
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:14 PM   #50
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US cruise ship outruns Somali pirates' guns - Yahoo! News

Pirates go after a cruise ship but are outrun.

Why are cruise ships taking this route?
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:25 PM   #51
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Why are cruise ships taking this route?
No clue here -- that region isn't exactly high on my "places to see before I die" list...
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:30 PM   #52
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National Geographic magazine had a great article on Malaysian pirates in October of 2007. Absolutely fascinating. Here's the link:

Malacca Strait Pirates - National Geographic Magazine

I suspect many of the same issues are at play in Somalia.
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... I find it hard to believe Pirates can so easily capture a huge moving ship.
I always wondered the same, until I read the same article that Urchina referenced above. It all makes sense how their low tech invasion technique works!
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:36 PM   #53
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Why are cruise ships taking this route?
Maybe it was some kind of ""Outward Bound" or a corproate teambuilding exercise?.
"Jim from Marketing says pirates are moving up fast on the port side!"
"Go see for yourself and tell me if you see anything. I don't trust anyone in Marketing."

Which brings to mind Monty Python's classic "Crimson Permanent Assurance" (pirate) bit!
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:30 PM   #54
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US cruise ship outruns Somali pirates' guns - Yahoo! News

Pirates go after a cruise ship but are outrun.

Why are cruise ships taking this route?
Dunno if it is exactly a common route, but in order to avoit the Gulf of Aden you would have to round the southern tip of Africa rather than go through the Suez canal. The round-the-cape trip would make for a looonnnngggg cruise.

Bet they won't be taking any more cruise ships that way for a while, now.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:36 PM   #55
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Why are cruise ships taking this route?
It' an adventure cruise.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:01 PM   #56
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Looks like Blackwater has been contacted be a few dozen shipping companies wanting to buy some security assistance. I don't know if the shipping companies will be willing to pay their price, but they'll probably get the job done if the deal is struck. They own the M/V McArthur (previously a NOAA vessel which Blackwater refitted for maritime security duties) and would use it for this mission.

Motor Vessel McArthurPicture 1 of 1

[Close]


"Company spokesmen said the dramatic increase of pirate attacks on merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden had led to parallel cost increases for the shipping industry, resulting in 10-fold insurance increases this year alone. They said that with the added danger pay offered to crews willing to make the journey, pirate ransom demands that reach into the millions, and lengthy negotiations for hijacked ships, if left unaddressed the cost of the piracy boom to the shipping industry -- and consumers buying their goods -- will only increase.
"Some shippers have taken the step of arming their crews, or hiring private security to ride on board cargo ships," the company said. "Rather than having armed guards on a cargo vessel, the McArthur´s ability to accompany a ship and deploy helicopters to patrol the area provides a safer option for the shipping industry."


Chinaco, that looks like one of your MH-6s in the photo (or some other Hughes 500 variant)

I do wonder if that big Old Glory flying on the mast of the McArthur obligates the USN to provide backup if the McArthur's crew bites off a little more than they can chew while protecting a ship from another country. Still, i don't think it will likely come to that. The McArthur can only be at one place at a time--there's lots of water out there and the pirates will be where she isn't.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:14 PM   #57
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Not kidding.

Thinking like yours led to the rise of the taliban and al quada.
Thinking like yours is exactly why the "taliban and al quada" are emboldened to attack US interests at will. What will it take for you to realize that these are offensive, not defensive organizations? How many more innocent people do they have to slaughter around the world for you to come to grips with the fact that ignoring the problem only makes it worse? How many more retarded suicide bombers, car bombs, roadside IED's subway bombs, planes flown into buildings, planes falling from the sky, hijackings, skyjackings, nightclub exposions, or other terrorist plots will it take for the message to get through? These are people whose stated purpose in life is to destroy all infidels and non-believers, (there are no innocents in their minds) and who have demonstrated through their repeated actions their willingness and eagerness to do so. Sorry to burst your idealistic bubble of pacifism, but time-outs and peace talks don't work for these folks, be it in the mountains of Afghanistan, the Gulf of Aden, a London Underground Station, or in a firefight in a Mumbai hotel lobby. They hate everything that is not in keeping with their warped principles of radical Islam- Christians, Jews, the West, Democracy, and Education, to name a few- and seek to destroy us, not to live alongside us in peace and harmony.

Thinking like yours is infinitely more dangerous than those who propose using our military resources to help defend democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and encourages those who would do us harm to escalate their actions, under their perceived belief that our response will be nothing more than hand-wringing.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:06 PM   #58
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[quote=Westernskies;756191]...They hate everything that is not in keeping with their warped principles of radical Islam- Christians, Jews, the West, Democracy, and Education, to name a few- and seek to destroy us, not to live alongside us in peace and harmony...
quote]

I wonder how they got that way.

This is getting kind of soapboxy isn't it?
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:53 PM   #59
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This is getting kind of soapboxy isn't it?
I think I stepped in something...

I suppose that a coordinated military effort to protect international shipping lanes is a reasonable use of military power...
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:59 AM   #60
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I think the larger issue is what happens when we start having more failed nations. IMO, this situation in Somalia is a peek at what is to come as a fallout of the growing financial crisis, global climate change and overall economic globalization.

I'm not convinced that in the long run, a strictly military solution is in order. People will do whatever they need to in order feed themselves and their families.
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