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Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 03:10 AM   #1
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Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Yesterday at my commuter train stop there was a train-vs.-pedestrian accident, and while I won't get into the details I will say that if it hadn't been for the quick action of bystanders the victim would probably have died from his injuries before paramedics arrived. And none of those bystanders were expecting to be working a trauma case that morning.

In every large group...airplane passengers, a church congregation, a movie audience...there are likely to be a couple of individuals who have asthma, epilepsy, diabetes, heart conditions, etc., and they could need help at any moment. Rapid, basic first aid can literally mean life and death for these individuals.

If you have a few extra hours and you're inclined to get trained for the first time or to get a refresher, the Red Cross and the American Heart Association offer good courses in CPR, "Heartsaving," and sometimes First Response.

If you want to go a step beyond that, you can get EMT-Basic certification in about 120 classroom hours (or one semester), give or take a few hours depending on your state's requirements.

You literally never know when you might be called on to use your training, and believe me, it's the best feeling in the world to know you've helped somebody when they really need it.

Thanks...

Ed
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 06:43 AM   #2
 
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Hello Ed. I agree it's a good idea, but wouldn't a
good Samaritan have to worry about getting sued
in case there was a bad outcome, which of course
would happen from time to time. OTOH, if you had the
training you would be pretty much compelled to step in.

Reminds me of a story. I was at at summer party at a
marina. We were walking down then pier and passed
a group which had obviously been celebrating
with youthful enthusiasm. One guy was so drunk he stepped
right off the dock into the lake (8 foot drop - deep water).
I was poised to jump in when a bystander beat me to it.
The guy was okay and I was happy that kudos for the
rescue went to someone else.

JG
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 07:51 AM   #3
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

John, most states have good samaritan laws which protect people from suits resulting from trying to help others in need.

Not to the extent of the last Sinfield episode though, where the town had a law that required you to be a good samaritan.
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 10:05 AM   #4
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

JG...good question.

People rarely get sued for damages arising from volunteer rescue efforts, but the Good Samaritan laws (on the books in all 50 states and in D.C.) don't provide absolute protection from negligence, malpractice, etc. (Nor should they, in my opinion, but that's another conversation.)

The guiding GSL principle is that a Good Samaritan rescuer, whether a volunteer or an off-duty professional, is expected to provide care that's consistent with his or her level of training. As an EMT-B I wouldn't be expected to perform a tracheotomy on a choking patient, but I would be expected to perform the Heimlich.

So as long as you're not guilty of gross negligence you're protected from civil damages. As I understand it gross negligence in these cases would have to be pretty gross...putting a tourniquet around someone's neck to control a scalp wound, for instance.

On the Seinfeld thing...some states do have laws on the books that require bystanders to provide aid. I think that's a mistake. People should be allowed to choose whether or not to help at accidents, and when they do their best to help they should expect to be protected from civil liability.

Ed
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 10:31 AM   #5
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Quote:
*As an EMT-B I wouldn't be expected to perform a tracheotomy on a choking patient, but I would be expected to perform the Heimlich.Ed
Ed, what is an EMT-B? How long beyond basic EMT (the 120 hr course) does one have to study to get this certification?

In agreement with your story above, I was at a dance about 2 years ago where an older guy hit the floor out cold. No heartbeat at all. Two women who were nurses gave CPR, and the guy recovered from his MI and is back dancing today complete with a new girlfriend.

Mikey

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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 10:59 AM   #6
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

EMT-B means EMT-Basic, so we're talking about the same thing. 120-ish hours. EMT-Ps are paramedics, which takes a year or more plus practical experience and EMT-B certification.

That's a great story about the dance. Those nurses must have felt ten feet tall.

I was at a call once that was the exact opposite...a guy hit the floor at a dance club and his two buddies started CPR on him. When we got there he was yelling and trying to push his buddies off him. The funny thing was they were all liquored up and he'd never even coded in the first place.

Ed
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 11:59 AM   #7
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Quote:
People rarely get sued for damages arising from volunteer rescue efforts, but the Good Samaritan laws (on the books in all 50 states and in D.C.) don't provide absolute protection from negligence, malpractice, etc. (Nor should they, in my opinion, but that's another conversation.)

The guiding GSL principle is that a Good Samaritan rescuer, whether a volunteer or an off-duty professional, is expected to provide care that's consistent with his or her level of training. As an EMT-B I wouldn't be expected to perform a tracheotomy on a choking patient, but I would be expected to perform the Heimlich.

So as long as you're not guilty of gross negligence you're protected from civil damages. As I understand it gross negligence in these cases would have to be pretty gross...putting a tourniquet around someone's neck to control a scalp wound, for instance.
Even if you are a responsible Good Samaritan, wouldn't proving your innocence still be be rather costly or is there financial protection against lawsuits?

MJ
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 12:07 PM   #8
 
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Okay, I gotta weigh in on this.

IMHO, you are taking a chance rendering any "Good
Samaritan" sort of care. Of course, under the right
circumstances most of us would do it rather than stand by and watch someone die. But, I can think of all sorts of ways it can land you in trouble. You can be hauled into court for practically anything these days (just read
the papers). And another thing. That Seinfeld episode
with them landing in the slammer because they did not
help the fat guy was pretty funny. However, that sort
of "Big Brotherism" is expanding like crazy. I could give you some examples of left wing/PC stuff that we will all
be forced to comply with in the future, and even some
of the liberals here wouldn't believe it. It may still be
"The home of the brave", but "The land of the free"
is a distant memory.

JG
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 12:39 PM   #9
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

These are interesting responses and they cut to the heart of the GSL's purpose.

Good Samaritan laws were enacted because legislators recognized the need to keep the scale tipped towards "a reasonable person would help in an emergency," rather than "a reasonable person would decline to help for fear of being hauled into court."

I can honestly say that in ten plus years of volunteer EMS in several different jurisdicitons, including Boston, that I've never even heard of a volunteer EMS provider getting sued. Doesn't mean it can't happen.
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 12:43 PM   #10
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Quote:
J. . . *As I understand it gross negligence in these cases would have to be pretty gross...putting a tourniquet around someone's neck to control a scalp wound, for instance.

. . .
Ed
I would like to learn how to perform this kind of rescue. If anyone on the board has this level of training, I have a list of people who I believe need the treatment.
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 05:16 PM   #11
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Quote:
EMT-B means EMT-Basic, so we're talking about the same thing. *120-ish hours. *EMT-Ps are paramedics, which takes a year or more plus practical experience and EMT-B certification.
Thanks Ed. I think I will look into this training.
Quote:
That's a great story about the dance. *Those nurses must have felt ten feet tall.
I would have for sure; but they were such matter of fact women I am not sure that they realized what huge heroes they were. Even though I told both of them over and over.

Quote:
I was at a call once that was the exact opposite...a guy hit the floor at a dance club and his two buddies started CPR on him. *When we got there he was yelling and trying to push his buddies off him. *The funny thing was they were all liquored up and he'd never even coded in the first place.Ed
Great story. I bet you have a million of them.

Mikey
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-05-2005, 06:32 PM   #12
 
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

Hey Mikey. I have a "million of them" too. Want to hear one? Just kidding.........

JG
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training
Old 01-06-2005, 06:34 AM   #13
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Re: Please get CPR/AED/First Aid training

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If you have a few extra hours and you're inclined to get trained for the first time or to get a refresher, the Red Cross and the American Heart Association offer good courses in CPR, "Heartsaving," and sometimes First Response.
I just renewed my BLS (CPR) card yesterday and had similar thoughts. I have to renew every 2yrs and the biggest improvement I have seen in 26yrs is the AED. That could really save lives but if you don't know what it is or where it is, it can't help. Do yourself a favor, next time ou're in a mall or WalMart, check to see if they have an AED.

I just this AM read about a man, mid 50's, who was getting snow off his motorhome in preparation for leaving on a trip, complained of heartburn, wife went to campground store to buy Rolaids but hubby was dead by the time she got back. Speedy treatment is the key.

Good topic, Ed.

Judy
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