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Old 01-04-2008, 08:24 PM   #21
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Run ... don't look back

FYI, "GGG" means Good, Giving & Game. Think of a woman who looks forward to being tied down to the bed and made love to into sexual jelly ... then who can make cosmetic repairs with Wal-Mart priced items ... and then be taken out to a good restaurant (by you).

For your current lady, I agree with Cattusbabe. RUN, do not walk, out of this relationship. Let me be even more blunt. If she sobs and comes back to you for sex, & you can't help yourself, wear a condom. You DO NOT want to be tied to this woman by an 'unplanned' pregnancy.

Each and every one of my first 3 marriages were to ladies who turned out to be 'precious metals excevators' (golddiggers); scam-artists each and every one; who could spend everything I could make, even before I made it.

I do not want to tell anyone how far I 'fell' from financial grace ... or perhaps you know what I mean when I say I 'lived rough' for several years, as a direct result of wives being chronic over-spenders. 'Nuff said!
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:17 PM   #22
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FinanceDude, I must disagree with you in that. She never used sex as a weapon. She just wants to have sex less than me... a lot less...
Let me re-work this......you have compatibility issues............
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:24 PM   #23
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Did I read the same thread as everyone else?

You've been together 7 years, during which time she worked and put you through law school. On the eve of qualifying to work in your profession and considerably increase your income, you decide that she's only been after your money?

I agree you have issues with the relationship and withholding affection, getting stuck arguing about purchases and angry outbursts are good signs you both probably have issues to work on.

I'm not so sure I'd write her off as gold digger based on what you've written here. If she's been working to pay the bills while you went to school, it seems reasonable that she would expect to enjoy the increase of income that is expected to come from your new profession. It also seems you would owe her for supporting you. Sounds like you both have issues with unspoken assumptions by both of you regarding your joint future.
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:44 PM   #24
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I'm working in a low-pay job earning $12k/year. She works in a Bank and earns $35k/year. I have a high chance, until the end of 2008, to get a job that pays $61k/year and in 2011-2012 $170k/year. She will probably top her salary at $56k/year for the next 10-15 years.

Our economies: She has a "brazilian 401k" with 2.5k, we have invested 4.5k in bonds and she has a special government savings account (mandatory to all legalized workers here in Brazil) with 4k. Total 11k. We also have a car that my dad gave to me but it is still in his name, so it's not really mine.
Leonardo,

Given your post on 5/8/06:

Young Dreamers, how early do you want to retire?

And your post on 3/5/07:

Poll: How old ar you?

I have three questions:

(1) How did you have $175k saved less than two years ago?

(2) How did it grow to over $300k less than one year ago?

(3) How did it go down to $11k in ten months?
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:01 PM   #25
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Um.....that's exactly it. A woman who knows full well your needs and refuses to address them but says she loves you is either a liar or using sex as a weapon...........

The op didn't say how or if they had ever addressed their differing needs for sex, so you can't say she refuses to address his needs. If you are saying she should take care of his needs just because he has them and she knows it, that's different and offensive.

Women are not responsible for men's sexual needs. I can't even begin to reply to everything that is wrong with the above quote. Men thinking that way is a prime factor in all kinds of abuse.

People with incompatable sex drives certainly need to work through that and it will change over the years, but it doesn't mean she is using sex as a weapon just because she has a different sex drive than he.

Now, Op: Read Keirsey's book on personality Please Understand Me II, including the dating section. INTJ and ENFP are the most compatible for those types. Make sure you're really an INTJ though, b/c ISTJ would make both miserable.

People's financial outlooks can change over time. I have become very frugal, but it was because of my DH and didn't happen until close to 30. Getting on the same page financially is huge. Dave Ramsey and Your money or your Life are good resources, books and websites.

Bigger issues are perhaps kids and religion. If she thinks she would want and you KNOW you wouldn't, then it's better to split. It's hard enough to have kids, you have to want them. And as people get older, religion may become more important.

Sometimes a love can be good but not the right one for you. If I hadn't ended one at 25 that was good, I wouldn't be with the great one now with 12 years and 2 kids and at ER.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:01 AM   #26
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Did I read the same thread as everyone else?
I would be pissed off also, if somebody that was making nearly 1/3 of what I was making dictated the budget....BTW, OP, welcome to the couples advice section of the ER boards
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:52 AM   #27
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OP, I agree with others that this relationship has no future.

However, if she has been contributing more than half financially over these years you do owe her some consideration, her financial contribution helped make it possible for you to achieve your goals . During the next several years you need to set aside money to pay her back, as it were. It should be in cash, ideally a lump sum that she could use to buy a home or pay for her wedding - in any case for her to use as she sees fit. Think of this as a divorce without a marriage, each should come out with their dignity and resources balanced.
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:30 AM   #28
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Um.....that's exactly it. A woman who knows full well your needs and refuses to address them but says she loves you is either a liar or using sex as a weapon...........
SOOO... if you wife wanted to have sex every hour... and you did not address her needs.... you would be using sex as a weapon

I tend to disagree with you on this one... it is not her duty to satisfy your sexual demands... but, she should compromise some, but then again maybe she only wants sex once a month and IS compromising and just has not said anything...



Edit... WOW... ENFP said it well also.. did not read it when I posted...
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:43 AM   #29
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To the OP....

There has to be more than what you wrote..... heck, almost every married person I have met have said the same thing... one guy was upset because his wife bought a $5,000 dining room set... one HAD to have a Mercedes.. but she made that amount in bonus, so it was not a big deal...

So.. what is the REAL reason Just kicking you out of bed ONCE in 8 years seems kind of minor to break up with a woman that you 'love'.. seems to me you would talk it out and work through the problems...

Is she 'rebelling' with her spending? Yes... but why? I do not know... does ANYBODY need $200 shampoo? NO... there is no difference in the cheap and expensive no matter what some will say... but as CFB said, it is not the shampoo, but something else...

Sounds to me like you took advantage of the situation and now that your salary will be skyrocketing you wish to check out the field and see if you can get a better one... no problem.. many men try and 'trade up' when they get financially set... so if this is the case... grow a pair and admit it... if this is not what you are doing.. then get counseling and get back with the woman you love... and both of you will have to find out why you have some differences..
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:59 AM   #30
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To the OP....

...is not what you are doing.. then get counseling and get back with the woman you love... and both of you will have to find out why you have some differences..
Dear Habby here!

Please, no counseling. Bad enough to start this when you are married and are about to wreck a family, lose a lot of money etc. Totally ridiculous to do it at ages 24 and 26.

Face it, you two are really different. She is fun loving and outgoing, you are 24 going on 48. For a woman to feel passion for a man, she has to feel like something good is going on for her. For your ex, saving money is not something good. Not to mention the insulting irony mentioned by other posters of having you try to control the way she spends her own earned income. Get some money of your own and then control that.

Hanging around here one gets the idea that the purpose of life is saving money, avoiding children, staying home, etc. But a lot of people don't see it that way. It doesn't matter who is right, you are both better off with someone with the same goals and approach.

Ha
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Old 01-05-2008, 02:05 AM   #31
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Hmm... love isn't enough! and you may be more "attached" or "used" to her than anything - you two were kids when you met and probably had great fun, built up a fantasy of staying together forever and can't imagine life without each other.

But you both are growing up and it seems apart and you need your independent time to find out who you are...your twenties are crucial for that. if you didn't get out of the relationship you would miss time to go out in the world...explore other relationships, find out what you like, etc...

have fun now, go out - explore. you won't get this time back...
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:45 AM   #32
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Did I read the same thread as everyone else?

You've been together 7 years, during which time she worked and put you through law school. On the eve of qualifying to work in your profession and considerably increase your income, you decide that she's only been after your money?

I agree you have issues with the relationship and withholding affection, getting stuck arguing about purchases and angry outbursts are good signs you both probably have issues to work on.

I'm not so sure I'd write her off as gold digger based on what you've written here. If she's been working to pay the bills while you went to school, it seems reasonable that she would expect to enjoy the increase of income that is expected to come from your new profession. It also seems you would owe her for supporting you. Sounds like you both have issues with unspoken assumptions by both of you regarding your joint future.
To growing_older and others:

She has been working for 2 years. I've been working for a year. Who "paid" my university (that was free) were my parents, as I lived with them during 90% of my law school. I do agree however that during 2007 she made the majority of money and also she was responsible for most of the expenses, excluding rent, taxes, etc.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:01 AM   #33
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Leonardo,

Given your post on 5/8/06:

Young Dreamers, how early do you want to retire?

And your post on 3/5/07:

Poll: How old ar you?

I have three questions:

(1) How did you have $175k saved less than two years ago?

(2) How did it grow to over $300k less than one year ago?

(3) How did it go down to $11k in ten months?
Well TickTock, that was a very basic albeit important lesson. 2 Years ago mother-in-law received a big inheritance. With part of the money she bought a house for $175k and said she would put it in name of my ex.

So she passed in february as I said, and when we checked the bank she had another 250k parked there. So my ex and my father-in-law decided that 125k would be with my ex and 125k with him. 125k + 175k = 300k.

The sad thing that happened was that my father-in-law changed completely some months after my mother-in-law death. He started to spend crazy money on hookers, booze, expensive toys, cars, etc. Of course that my ex and her dad had some serious fights because of this and are now completely separated. He even criminally accused her of beating him, etc. Everything went ashtray because: 1-We checked the registry and discovered that my mother-in-law died before making the change of the ownership. 2-My ex is adopted, but I discovered that the adoption was not "on paper" so she didn't have any legal rights to inherit 1 cent.

That's how our net worth went from 300k to basically 0. I missed the #1 rule about this: never consider inheritance money in your net worth until it is in your bank account. Hard lesson that one.

The thing is, I feel so bad for her. She has basically no family now except for some uncles and went through hell last year. I guess that's why she demands attention from me all the time.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:17 AM   #34
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OP, I agree with others that this relationship has no future.

However, if she has been contributing more than half financially over these years you do owe her some consideration, her financial contribution helped make it possible for you to achieve your goals . During the next several years you need to set aside money to pay her back, as it were. It should be in cash, ideally a lump sum that she could use to buy a home or pay for her wedding - in any case for her to use as she sees fit. Think of this as a divorce without a marriage, each should come out with their dignity and resources balanced.
Brat, as I explained she contributed more than half financially for 1 year. What I'm thinking to do is to leave all furniture with her (worth 8-9k in think), get half of the 4.5k we have in bonds and the car, of course. I'm not too worried if she wants to keep all the 4.5k because let's face it: this isn't a lot of money and I can recover from that 2 months after I get my higher paying job. I also think that she needs every support she can get, emotional and financially wise because she is basically alone now (I'm feeling so bad for this).
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:33 AM   #35
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To the OP....

There has to be more than what you wrote..... heck, almost every married person I have met have said the same thing... one guy was upset because his wife bought a $5,000 dining room set... one HAD to have a Mercedes.. but she made that amount in bonus, so it was not a big deal...

So.. what is the REAL reason Just kicking you out of bed ONCE in 8 years seems kind of minor to break up with a woman that you 'love'.. seems to me you would talk it out and work through the problems...

Is she 'rebelling' with her spending? Yes... but why? I do not know... does ANYBODY need $200 shampoo? NO... there is no difference in the cheap and expensive no matter what some will say... but as CFB said, it is not the shampoo, but something else...

Sounds to me like you took advantage of the situation and now that your salary will be skyrocketing you wish to check out the field and see if you can get a better one... no problem.. many men try and 'trade up' when they get financially set... so if this is the case... grow a pair and admit it... if this is not what you are doing.. then get counseling and get back with the woman you love... and both of you will have to find out why you have some differences..
Texas, thanks for the post. I agree that it is obvious that's not about the shampoo. It's not about being kicked out of bed either. That's not a deal-breaker. That episode made me think and realize that our differences are too big and the emotional scar will be so much bigger if I stay with her for another 8 years.

I'm trying to be honest here but I think I'm not doing this to "check the field". Even if she was unemployed if we had common goals I would stay with her forever and have a happy life.

As haha said we are really different and we know this for some time. When I was breaking up with her yesterday she said to me "I know we're totally different, we always knew this, but despite this we've stayed together loving each other because we complete each other... so you're breaking up with me for a reason that always existed in our relationship?" I just didn't know what to say... I think she is 100% right.

Haha, you're right when you say that "Hanging around here one gets the idea that the purpose of life is saving money, avoiding children, staying home, etc." One can really get obsessed with that but I guess I can see clearly what I want to do with my life: take some time to recover from this break-up, save money to retire early, study a lot to get this job fast, hang out with the few friends I have, enjoy the company of my aging parents and just have some leisure time reading, playing games, learning new things, etc. I'll not be actively searching for women, but if I fall in love again that will not be a bad thing.
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:12 AM   #36
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I would be pissed off also, if somebody that was making nearly 1/3 of what I was making dictated the budget....BTW, OP, welcome to the couples advice section of the ER boards
I'd be mad if anyone DICTATED it. I think I'd be less likely to be upset though if they wanted to spend less.

Quote:
What do you mean by fiancially incompatible? Because she's a spender and I'm a saver or because of the difference of salary?
Probably meant the first part, that she's a spender and you're a saver. It doesn't mean you're incompatible, just that it's not as easy.

Salary difference might be another area of incompatibility because people who make more money tend to want to spend more money. This, of course, isn't always the case by any means. It could present a problem, such as the one in the previous paragraph.
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:33 AM   #37
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Well TickTock, that was a very basic albeit important lesson. 2 Years ago mother-in-law received a big inheritance. With part of the money she bought a house for $175k and said she would put it in name of my ex.

So she passed in february as I said, and when we checked the bank she had another 250k parked there. So my ex and my father-in-law decided that 125k would be with my ex and 125k with him. 125k + 175k = 300k.

The sad thing that happened was that my father-in-law changed completely some months after my mother-in-law death. He started to spend crazy money on hookers, booze, expensive toys, cars, etc. Of course that my ex and her dad had some serious fights because of this and are now completely separated. He even criminally accused her of beating him, etc. Everything went ashtray because: 1-We checked the registry and discovered that my mother-in-law died before making the change of the ownership. 2-My ex is adopted, but I discovered that the adoption was not "on paper" so she didn't have any legal rights to inherit 1 cent.

That's how our net worth went from 300k to basically 0. I missed the #1 rule about this: never consider inheritance money in your net worth until it is in your bank account. Hard lesson that one.

The thing is, I feel so bad for her. She has basically no family now except for some uncles and went through hell last year. I guess that's why she demands attention from me all the time.
You two aren't married. He isn't your father-in-law. She wasn't your mother-in-law. It wasn't your net worth, it was hers - or would have been hers, had the house title changed and her father transferred the money to her.

So her NW went from what you thought was $300k to less than 3% of that and now YOU want to leave? Doesn't look like she's the gold-digger to me.

Get some sleep (you posted you were up 47 out of 48 hours). Humans are not likely to think clearly with that lack of sleep.


Looking back at your original post, you have:
  • Different money stlyes
  • Different personalities
  • Different sexual drives
  • Different religions
None of those are necessarily deal-breakers. Neither does that mean you two should stay together. But it looks to me like there's a lot more going on here than was in your original post. Sit down and talk with each other when you two are both more rested and calmer.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:41 AM   #38
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i must have woken up a bit, um, judgmental this morning. unfortunately for you, while enjoying my protein shake, i happened upon your post.

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Why the hell I'm awake 2:00AM when I don't want to? This is absurd and she was responsible for this.
though possibly the most immature 50 year old i've even known, even i'm pretty sure that part of growing up is taking responsibility for your own sleep. i believe the phrase is "you made your bed, now lie in it, close your eyes and go to sleep."

Quote:
I really want to save, ER very early (40 years tops)...I will continue studying to become a federal judge. The salary is very high ($170k)
my mother taught me to do what you enjoy that you can make some money. still, there is just something about some professions whereby being in it for the money is a total turn off to me. perhaps money can motivate someone to do just as excellent a job as someone who is in it for love, like a whore, and i am not saying that there is anything wrong with that, but the best, for example, doctors i found don't work for money at all. they do it because they love it. even if a doc was extremely well motivated by money, i'd put my money on the guy who does it for love every time.

there is something about a judge in it for the money that just turns my stomach. i'm not saying that you will be on the take as you seem at first glance honest enough. but i would rather not come before a judge who has his mind more on retirement than the case at hand. i think this sentiment exemplified well in the supreme court of the u.s., where judges are appointed for life, rather than being appointed until early retirement. they are not called your honor for nothing. this is a position that is supposed to be an honor to hold. this is the main course. not a snack to hold you until dinner.

on the other hand, i suppose there are all levels of healthcare & of judges.

Quote:
The only savings that we could make so far were the "mandatory" savings by the government (her 401k and the other account) and some money that my parents send to me every month to help me (even that money I had to argue heavily with her not to spend it)....The 4.5k I saved was from "extra" money that my parents sent to me to help us


my hope is that you will not pass your test too quickly, as smart as you might be, but rather that life might smack you around a little more first, that you might have some time to age & mature before given opportunity to pass judgment on others. it would be ashamed to have, say, a financial dispute ruled upon by a judge who thinks it is ok to take money from their parents, not for living requirements, but to take that money from his parent's retirement fund and place it in the bank to save for his own early retirement. sorry if i seem a bit judgmental, it just strikes me as bad judgment.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:41 AM   #39
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The answer is so obvious yet it is hard for you to make that final break, and I have been there also at times. But--and this is from an older woman with quite a bit of life experience--with her immaturity, high impulsivity and all the differences in styles--run so fast as you can from her. Just man-up (as we say in America) and cut the ties totally.
And I agree with a previous poster: She comes back for sex and whining and crying for you--if you do weaken--wear a condom. You definitely do not want to get stuck marrying this woman.
You need to break this relationship off fast!
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:57 AM   #40
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Did I read the same thread as everyone else?
That makes two of us. Partner A lets Partner B earn the majority of the money while he goes to college, then bails out when her inheritance goes away and she won't spend her earnings the way he sees fit.

What's more, if he really expects to make 4 or 5 times what she makes in the near future, then there will be plenty of money to save and STILL let her have a few nice things after 7 years of supporting him. Instead of thinking how he might do somthing wonderful for her after all her hard work, he monitors and criticizes her spending.

On the one hand, two people must be financially and otherwise compatible in order to make a go of it. They must agree on the overall strategic goals and plans.

On the other hand, if I'm making the majority of the money, PLUS holding up my end or more of the common expenses, PLUS making the most savings (forced or not, it's a part of her compensation), then I'll cut my personal spending money into little pieces and flush it down the toilet, and nobody's going to tell me I can't.

Quote:
What do you mean by fiancially incompatible? Because she's a spender and I'm a saver or because of the difference of salary?
What I meant, OP, is that you want to control her, and she doesn't want to be controlled.

End of story.
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