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brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

I'll be that's the case in ALL administrations. Anyone that thinks Clinton, Bush 41, and Ronnie were angels better step away from the crack pipe............

Sure, but none of them trashed the Constitution as thoroughly as these goons. Bush never wanted to bother getting a subpoena before. Now he has to be careful or he will be getting a LOT of them.

FinanceDude · 11-10-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Sure, but none of them trashed the Constitution as thoroughly as these goons. Bush never wanted to bother getting a subpoena before. Now he has to be careful or he will be getting a LOT of them.

And how has Bush singlehandedly destoyed the Constitution? Kind of like my sister who broadly proclaimed: "John Ashcroft took away all my personal freedoms" a couple years ago..............

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

And how has Bush singlehandedly destoyed the Constitution? Kind of like my sister who broadly proclaimed: "John Ashcroft took away all my personal freedoms" a couple years ago..............

You been locked in a closet somewhere the last 5 years?

FinanceDude · 11-10-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

You been locked in a closet somewhere the last 5 years?

Nope............I see this argument all the time around here. It goes something like this:

The Patriot Act was/is the single worst thing to be passed in the last 100 years. In intent, it was a good piece of legislation. In reality, it has been a disaster. Bush and his cronies have used it to spy on the American people in a way unprecedented in American history.

Perhaps the Dem majority should repeal the Patriot Act? Would that make you happy? I personally don't feel like I'm being monitored by Big Brother any more than 5 years ago.

And the guy I know who works for the CIA? Well, it's not like they haven't done some "unofficial things" in his 20 years there...............

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Sure, but none of them trashed the Constitution as thoroughly as these goons. Bush never wanted to bother getting a subpoena before. Now he has to be careful or he will be getting a LOT of them.

Let's see, if the Dem's really felt that strongly about the Patriot Act then they could have filibustered it. They have done it several times on other issues. The Republicans went easy on them by allowing them to go home at night instead of holding them to the letter and making them talk 24/7. If I remember correctly didn't some of the lawsuits that made it to the Supreme Court nullify portions of certain laws. Sounds like the government is working like it's supposed to. Don't use the lame excuse that the Supreme Court wouldn't have been necessary if Bush were an up standing person etc. IIRC there have been many presidents, some who are now considered good or great, on the receiving end of a Supreme court smack down.

eridanus · 11-10-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Martha, you must be kidding. You consider the Court dominated by conservatives? Wow.

Uhhh.

Either you're to the right of the John Birch Society, or you're not aware of who sits on the Court.

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 10:29 AM

Whatever you say, guys. You bowed to the ruling party and therefore weren't worries that voicing dissent would get you on the no-fly list, snooped on by the Fan Belt Inspectors, or spirited off to a jail somewhere.

I think I will go to DC for Hillary's Inauguration Parade.

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Whatever you say, guys. You bowed to the ruling party and therefore weren't worries that voicing dissent would get you on the no-fly list, snooped on by the Fan Belt Inspectors, or spirited off to a jail somewhere.

I think I will go to DC for Hillary's Inauguration Parade.

Since you didn't bow, I guess one or all of the above happened to you?

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 10:32 AM

OPPS

FinanceDude · 11-10-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Whatever you say, guys. You bowed to the ruling party and therefore weren't worries that voicing dissent would get you on the no-fly list, snooped on by the Fan Belt Inspectors, or spirited off to a jail somewhere.

I think I will go to DC for Hillary's Inauguration Parade.

Travel safe............I would choose root canal over ANY Hillary celebration........

Brewer, you still don't sound happy..............don't worry, your Dems will fix everything Bush "screwed up"..........

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire

Since you didn't bow, I guess one or all of the above happened to you?

Oh, I imagine a FOIA request for any files the CIA/FBI/DHS has on me would either result in a fat file arriving, or a visit from some large gentlemen.

eridanus · 11-10-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Brewer, you still don't sound happy..............don't worry, your Dems will fix everything Bush "screwed up"..........

Can't be any worse. At the least, we might have some fiscal conservatism instead of "spending like a drunken Democrat," which Bush and crew are prone to do.

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Oh, I imagine a FOIA request for any files the CIA/FBI/DHS has on me would either result in a fat file arriving, or a visit from some large gentlemen.

So what you're really saying is you don't know if any of this ever happened to you. You're just worried because of some sound bites. The government is seriously under staffed for investigators in the areas you are concerned about. They have to have some kind of evidence or intellegence that a person is involved with a criminal or terrorist plan before they waste time on them. You don't realize how much information is floating out there. It would be similar to giving you every book, magazine, and newspaper in the world printed today, 11-10-06, and telling you to read all of them in seven days.

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire

So what you're really saying is you don't know if any of this ever happened to you. You're just worried because of some sound bites. The government is seriously under staffed for investigators in the areas you are concerned about. They have to have some kind of evidence or intellegence that a person is involved with a criminal or terrorist plan before they waste time on them. You don't realize how much information is floating out there. It would be similar to giving you every book, magazine, and newspaper in the world printed today, 11-10-06, and telling you to read all of them in seven days.

You clearly are not interested in hearing this, so I will try once more to explain on a basic level and then leave you to stew in your own juices.

Freedom of speech is being impinged (to put it mildly) upon when the executive branch can unilaterally snoop on or even jail a Merkin citizen without a warrant, keep them locked up indefinately, possibly even torture them, and deny them access to counsel. All of this is new under the rethuglicans. I would love to see this change, and hopefully at least some of it will with a Demoratic congress. At least restoring the writ of habeas corpus wouldd be a good start.

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 10:57 AM

Obviously. I can tell by all of the lawsuits going to the Supreme Court. :

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 11:03 AM

Ja Vold!

lets-retire · 11-10-2006, 11:20 AM

The point is you claim there are all of these violation, yet even with charitable organizations, like the ACLU, there hasn't been many cases brought before the Supreme Court about the "violations". Until there are more, I'd say you are grossly over exaggerating the situation.

brewer12345 · 11-10-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire

The point is you claim there are all of these violation, yet even with charitable organizations, like the ACLU, there hasn't been many cases brought before the Supreme Court about the "violations". Until there are more, I'd say you are grossly over exaggerating the situation.

Cherish that thought as they drag you off to the gulag.