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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 11:06 AM   #81
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud
JG.... from a conservative guy like me... I am HAPPY that the Repubs lost both houses...
I tend to agree with you Texas Proud. I'm best described as a Chicago Democrat and a National Independent. Frequently, for the national scene, my favorite party is the Gridlock Party and we've certainly moved in that direction.
Quote:
From what I have heard (and who knows if this is true).. the dems recruited many 'middle of the road' people to defeat the repubs.... let's hope so... but if they did not, then in two years maybe some new CORRECT repubs will appear, but I have my doubts... they will be the same old same old...
Seems like that is the way it is supposed to work. The out of power party listens to the people and modifies their platform to attract more voters. Moderate Dems are fine with me. Moderate Reps too. In fact, I'm a big fan of Radical Middle.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 01:23 PM   #82
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9


As for the idea that somehow this administration invented kidnapping and torture, give me a break. We've been kidnapping people for intel since the 1600's. On top of that, if GWB wants to snatch some jihadist out of his bed and attach car batteries to his nuts for weeks at a time, BLESS HIM! I'd love to buy those guys a beer for doing it.

Insert yourself for your supposed jihadist and replay the scenario. Still happy with that vision of the world?
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 01:36 PM   #83
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by Mr._johngalt
I kind of agree and that brewer post was nasty. Makes some of my rants look pretty benign. Maybe you've noticed I have not had much to say about
the election. Well, it's not for lack of opinion.
I expect the libs/dems to screw everything up and steal us blind, just at a faster pace than the previous administration. They are equally
clueless and dishonest. So, the direction we're headed overall
will not change. Just a little throttle variation. My guess is a lot of you
will hardly notice the difference.

JG
Oh really, Mr. "I'm a libertarian except when it comes to letting the state lock up any one it pleases"? Mr. "Ann Coulter makes perfect semse even when she is lying through her teeth"?

Tell you what: go vote in the next election (for anyone) and start making sense. Until then I will continue to believe you have the intellect and moral validity of pond scum.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 01:51 PM   #84
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Oh really, Mr. "I'm a libertarian except when it comes to letting the state lock up any one it pleases"? Mr. "Ann Coulter makes perfect semse even when she is lying through her teeth"?

Tell you what: go vote in the next election (for anyone) and start making sense. Until then I will continue to believe you have the intellect and moral validity of pond scum.
My goodness! Did we get up on the wrong side of our crib?

JG
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 01:53 PM   #85
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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My goodness! Did we get up on the wrong side of our crib?

JG
Working on doormat sucker wife number three yet?
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 01:55 PM   #86
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

What I want is a fiscally responsible and globally thoughtful honest government that respects the rights of individuals in all areas of their personal lives.

Republican leadership sold all of the above for power.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 03:47 PM   #87
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Uhhh. Either you're to the right of the John Birch Society, or you're not aware of who sits on the Court.
eridumass

I'm aware. If it was as conservative as you think obvious, we'd see different results for the expansion of "eminent domain", a true right to keep and bear arms, etc. It is a measure of how "liberal" the U.S. has become that you feel they are "conservative", whatever that means to you, my friend.

For the "liberals" on this forum, if you really get your way, you may see gulags indeed, but they'll be brought to you by the likes of "liberals" ... socialists and their ilk have a very bloody history.

If you think so-called "conservatives" are so evil, and "liberals" so wonderful, remember who brought us the murders in Waco, TX. Your "liberal" friends.

There's plenty I don't like about Bush and his friends. But, I'm a libertarian, and I see little "progressive" or "liberal" in people like Hillary, or Pelosi. Or in the crudeness of people like brewer.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 04:15 PM   #88
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by Charles
eridumass

I'm aware. If it was as conservative as you think obvious, we'd see different results for the expansion of "eminent domain", a true right to keep and bear arms, etc. It is a measure of how "liberal" the U.S. has become that you feel they are "conservative", whatever that means to you, my friend.

For the "liberals" on this forum, if you really get your way, you may see gulags indeed, but they'll be brought to you by the likes of "liberals" ... socialists and their ilk have a very bloody history.

If you think so-called "conservatives" are so evil, and "liberals" so wonderful, remember who brought us the murders in Waco, TX. Your "liberal" friends.

There's plenty I don't like about Bush and his friends. But, I'm a libertarian, and I see little "progressive" or "liberal" in people like Hillary, or Pelosi. Or in the crudeness of people like brewer.
Megadittos! And just to clarify my earlier post to Martha, the court is not
conservative (Libertarian?) enough to suit me either, but it's a hell of a
lot better than some other mixtures I could easily conjure up. So,
I will gladly live with them for now and hope we get some more
right wing justices before I slip the surly bonds of earth. It's why I still
tend to support Bush. I have seen the opposition and it's not pretty.

JG
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 04:26 PM   #89
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Working on doormat sucker wife number three yet?
All done dancing, my friend. All done dancing.

JG
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #90
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Insert yourself for your supposed jihadist and replay the scenario. Still happy with that vision of the world?
I don't associate with, give money, loan money, go to mosque with, or even talk to terrorists. If you do, well, then in my book you've earned your trip to gitmo. Hope they enjoy the trip
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 04:49 PM   #91
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by saluki9
I don't associate with, give money, loan money, go to mosque with, or even talk to terrorists.
But Saluki, under the law Bush rushed through, Hillary could arrest you for no reason at all and keep you for her nefarious purposes for as long as she liked. You would have no right to demand a reason - what the hell, she wouldn't even have to acknowledge she had you. Keep in mind, these restrictions on our rights are tools for whoever is in charge. The wonderful caring neo-cons who America just didn't understand, or the evil secular humanists who are pounding at the doors.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 05:30 PM   #92
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
eridumass

I'm aware. If it was as conservative as you think obvious, we'd see different results for the expansion of "eminent domain", a true right to keep and bear arms, etc. It is a measure of how "liberal" the U.S. has become that you feel they are "conservative", whatever that means to you, my friend.

For the "liberals" on this forum, if you really get your way, you may see gulags indeed, but they'll be brought to you by the likes of "liberals" ... socialists and their ilk have a very bloody history.

If you think so-called "conservatives" are so evil, and "liberals" so wonderful, remember who brought us the murders in Waco, TX. Your "liberal" friends.

There's plenty I don't like about Bush and his friends. But, I'm a libertarian, and I see little "progressive" or "liberal" in people like Hillary, or Pelosi. Or in the crudeness of people like brewer.
Charles, do you really believe that the liberals here are the sort of liberals that are of the same ilk as the purported socialists with a bloody history? Totalitarian governments tend to call themselves socialist or communist when they are not even close. I have no respect for those governments and they never, ever were liberal. Liberal is Sweden and Norway, not Soviet Russia or some other so called socialist republic. Liberals in no way have a bloody history.

Webster's definition of liberal:


Liberal
(lib'er el, lib'rel), adj 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs. 2. (often cap.) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform. 3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism. 4. Favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties 5. favoring of permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers. 6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies. 7. Free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners. 8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc. 9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: A liberal donor 10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation. 11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule. 12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts. 13. of, or pertaining to, or befitting a freeman. -n 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion. 15. (often cap.) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain. [1325-75; ME < L liberalis of freedom, befitting the free, equiv. to liber free + -alis -al] –lib'er-al-ly, adv –lib'er›al›ness, n



Let's see, a liberal believes in individual freedom, tolerance and generosity. This is what I believe.

Now, I have a very hard time getting my arms around the libertarian philosophy. So, the basic philosophy is that you are free to do what you want provided it does not interfere with or harm another person or another person's property. I have a real hard time understanding how a libertarian would see to the building and maintaining of infrastructure like roads, sewers, etc. And if it is ok to take your money and land for infrastructure, isn't it even more ok to collect taxes for social welfare like for the fda, for schools, or for medicaid or SSI? How about taxing to support a war you don't believe in? Or conscription?

You cannot have a society without rules. That is anarchy. Inevitably rules will result in some interference with people and their property. We live in a crowded complicated world; it comes down to deciding what rules we do want and why.


Yes, Brewer is a crude liberal. And JG is rude libertarian. But if you are a libertarian, I am sure you wouldn't want us to censor either one of them.

Another time, maybe we can talk about the Supreme Court and the many faces of conservativism and liberalism. But for the most part, it is 5 to 4 in favor of conservatives and those conservatives are much more conservative than they have ever been before in my lifetime.

Regarding eminent domain, know that a sovereign nation has the power to take from anyone unless the people in that nation agree to restrict their government. In the US, we amended our constitution and agreed that the federal government cannot take property for public use without just compensation.

If you look back in the records for ownership of your land, the first individual owner got the land from the United States, who, using its sovereign power, bought it (from someone else who took it) or seized the land for itself when creating this nation.

So it only is your property because someone took it in the first place. It isn't like God gave someone a deed.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 05:53 PM   #93
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by Martha
And JG is rude libertarian.

Damn straight!

JG
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 06:25 PM   #94
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by Martha
Let's see, a liberal believes in individual freedom, tolerance and generosity. This is what I believe.

Yes, Brewer is a crude liberal.
I like your definition of liberal Martha. It makes more sense than thinking of, say, the Red Army during The Revolution as an example of "liberal." But, how would you define "crude liberal" as you used it?

Many people identify themselves as liberals but far fewer would meet the criteria of your excellent definition.

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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 06:36 PM   #95
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha

Let's see, a liberal believes in individual freedom, tolerance and generosity. This is what I believe.
Of course, a true conservative believes these things also.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 06:48 PM   #96
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

Poor Brewer. By refering to him as a "crude" liberal, I was referring to his use of language in this thread.

FIRE'd@51, of course my summary was only a summary of the long dictionary definition and a conservative could believe in individual freedom, tolerance and generosity, though there are plenty of true conservatives that believe the generosity doesn't extend to social programs. Devil in the details.

A key part of being a liberal is not necessarily being bound by conventional ideas and traditions. A key part of being a conservative is the importance of traditions and conventions. I imagine the ideal may be a balance of both.
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 07:14 PM   #97
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Agreed. Bush didn't float to the top by not compromising ever. He is a politician, after all.
Turds float... :P
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 07:29 PM   #98
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Poor Brewer. By refering to him as a "crude" liberal, I was referring to his use of language in this thread.
Oh....... OK, glad you cleared that up. I thought you were refering to his personal attacks on fellow posters' female family members, specifically their mothers or wives.

Ahh...... when politics are discussed, tempers flare! And low blows fly!
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 07:37 PM   #99
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Originally Posted by youbet

Ahh...... when politics are discussed, tempers flare! And low blows fly!
Brewer is losing touch with reality IMHO. Okay with me. I'm just
havin' fun here.

JG
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......
Old 11-11-2006, 07:43 PM   #100
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Re: When I Look Upon Pelosi & Reid I Get......

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Brewer is losing touch with reality IMHO. Okay with me. I'm just
havin' fun here.

JG
I have no doubt that Brewer is perfectly in touch with reality.
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