Poll: April 8 is D-Day For Windows XP, What Will You Do?
- Thread starter easysurfer
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Then again, A shorter support window is fine when the upgrade is easy, cheap, and relatively problem free. I need a 10 year support window on XP if someone throws a PoS like Vista at me. I've never needed that in the years I've been with Mac.
ls99
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Gee have not looked at this thread in a while.
Looking through the collection, Dos is on 5.25, and win 3.11 on 3. 5s. win 95 on 3.5 floppes, do have 95 on CD as well.
Amazing, the stuff I find in the basement.
ls99
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Talk about old stuff. Just upgraded to Xp from win2K on a 233 Mhz Toshiba laptop with 96 Mb of memory. Had to delete a bunch of stuff from Xp to load it on a 4 gig hard drive, now have 1.8 gig oof unused space.
This machine rides in my suburban, use it to monitor my monster modified 7.4 engine. Would love to go to linux, but the engine monitor software has no unix compilable version.
The Toshiba is more 25 years old, original hard drive. It is better than the energizer bunny.
This machine rides in my suburban, use it to monitor my monster modified 7.4 engine. Would love to go to linux, but the engine monitor software has no unix compilable version.
The Toshiba is more 25 years old, original hard drive. It is better than the energizer bunny.
Mainstream support for Windows Vista ended in 2012. If you're still getting Windows updates regularly then you paid for extended support, which ends in 2017.
Antivirus updates have nothing to do with the security updates discussed earlier.
There is a limit to how long even Microsoft will support an OS. In the case of ATMs, the version of the operating system that they use has extended support available (for an additional fee) until 2016.
There is no appreciable difference between the expediency of upgrading to Macintosh OS X and of upgrading to Microsoft Windows 7 or to Microsoft Windows 8.
Talking about Vista after Windows 7 and Windows 8 is like talking about Nazi Germany almost seven decades later.
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It is attitudes like that expressed in the article linked below that make me long for the day when I can afford to retire from the industry.
Perspective: Microsoft risks security reputation ruin by retiring XP - Computerworld
Here you see an industry analyst essentially laying the groundwork for some kind of "I told you so" idiocy that he would post sometime in the future, cynically presuming (and probably correctly so) that the fact that he expressed his vacuous expectations in the past would be enough to foster cognitive dissonance in readers of his later ranting, prompting them to ignore the unreasonable nature of those expectations.
Our society is rife with incidence of irrational sense of entitlement - in all quarters, not just with regard to the purchase of software, but I think the nature of software, as something that some people have a inanely self-serving incapacity to acknowledge has value in the same way that a laptop computer has value, makes it a frequent victim of the pervasive irrational sense of entitlement in society. It's one thing to see the phenomenon in action - it is even worse to see someone standing on a respected soapbox seek to exploit this societal illness.
Perhaps you have to be in the industry to understand the nature of what we're talking about. Software support is not something that you have bottled up on the shelf, and can decide willy-nilly whether to offer it for sale on a whim. The cost of sustaining engineering substantially increases as the need for it decreases. This isn't just a matter of economies of scale (but that is part of it), but also a matter of resource management. To a great extent, high quality sustaining engineering relies on institutional memory: People who are working developing and extending the software day in and day out generally have the ability to recognize or efficiently identify the source of a problem. As people move onto other projects, the risk of offering sustaining engineering increases, as fewer and fewer people have less and less retention of institutional memory that can be applied to diagnosis and remediation of problems. So you're faced with either the cost of that risk, or the cost of maintaining people in positions that are effectively earning you little or no profit, doing work that is little more than busywork (because customers that have stuck with a technologies long after it is been superseded by newer technologies also resent any substantive changes you make to the product), simply to maintain sufficient institutional memory to support the ability to do effective sustaining engineering.
Microsoft faces another problem, that we don't face at my company - that offering extended support indefinitely depresses their new license revenue stream. It is absolutely fair for them to present an offer to customer and expect the customer to abide by the agreement, not only the logistical realities of the agreement but also the spirit of the agreement. Buying something that comes with ten years of support and then in any way begrudging the ending of the support after ten years is disingenuous. It shows a lack of character, in my opinion.
We all wish that everything we buy is exceedingly inexpensive, and at the same time we wish superlative compensation for what we offer. We all wish that everything we buy has perfect quality, forever, and at the same time we wish people to expect nothing more from us than our best efforts. It is really important to recognize that the green characteristics and the purple characteristics work against each other.
Perspective: Microsoft risks security reputation ruin by retiring XP - Computerworld
Here you see an industry analyst essentially laying the groundwork for some kind of "I told you so" idiocy that he would post sometime in the future, cynically presuming (and probably correctly so) that the fact that he expressed his vacuous expectations in the past would be enough to foster cognitive dissonance in readers of his later ranting, prompting them to ignore the unreasonable nature of those expectations.
Our society is rife with incidence of irrational sense of entitlement - in all quarters, not just with regard to the purchase of software, but I think the nature of software, as something that some people have a inanely self-serving incapacity to acknowledge has value in the same way that a laptop computer has value, makes it a frequent victim of the pervasive irrational sense of entitlement in society. It's one thing to see the phenomenon in action - it is even worse to see someone standing on a respected soapbox seek to exploit this societal illness.
Perhaps you have to be in the industry to understand the nature of what we're talking about. Software support is not something that you have bottled up on the shelf, and can decide willy-nilly whether to offer it for sale on a whim. The cost of sustaining engineering substantially increases as the need for it decreases. This isn't just a matter of economies of scale (but that is part of it), but also a matter of resource management. To a great extent, high quality sustaining engineering relies on institutional memory: People who are working developing and extending the software day in and day out generally have the ability to recognize or efficiently identify the source of a problem. As people move onto other projects, the risk of offering sustaining engineering increases, as fewer and fewer people have less and less retention of institutional memory that can be applied to diagnosis and remediation of problems. So you're faced with either the cost of that risk, or the cost of maintaining people in positions that are effectively earning you little or no profit, doing work that is little more than busywork (because customers that have stuck with a technologies long after it is been superseded by newer technologies also resent any substantive changes you make to the product), simply to maintain sufficient institutional memory to support the ability to do effective sustaining engineering.
Microsoft faces another problem, that we don't face at my company - that offering extended support indefinitely depresses their new license revenue stream. It is absolutely fair for them to present an offer to customer and expect the customer to abide by the agreement, not only the logistical realities of the agreement but also the spirit of the agreement. Buying something that comes with ten years of support and then in any way begrudging the ending of the support after ten years is disingenuous. It shows a lack of character, in my opinion.
We all wish that everything we buy is exceedingly inexpensive, and at the same time we wish superlative compensation for what we offer. We all wish that everything we buy has perfect quality, forever, and at the same time we wish people to expect nothing more from us than our best efforts. It is really important to recognize that the green characteristics and the purple characteristics work against each other.
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Who'd a thunk Mr Godwin would make an appearance on a software thread? I guess emotions can run high on this topic as well. At any rate, I wasn't trying to dredge up old history (if 2008 can be considered old history). It just happened to be my experience that it was Vista that drove me away from Windows.
I suspect moving to OSX from the previous architecture was painful indeed. Fortunately for me I moved to Mac well after that, and every subsequent upgrade has been easy and totally uneventful. Actually I once had to wait a few weeks for Canon to release a new driver to get all the features of my scanner to work. Other than than, it's been a breeze.
Chuckanut
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Good point. My 5 year old MacBook runs the latest OS very well. Upgrade cost was $0.
My friend's 7 year old iMac could not be upgraded. But, it still runs like a charm.
Freud was wrong: Sometimes a pencil is just a pencil.
And that's really the point: We don't talk about upgrades to MacOS solely in terms of the upgrade to OSX, and we therefore shouldn't talk about upgrades to Windows solely in terms of the upgrade to Vista.
aja8888
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I am sitting here on my XP Professional desktop built by me in 2008 or so, that runs perfectly fine and is maxed out with 2 GB RAM, two hard drives in RAID 0, lots of video memory on a discrete card, a 24" Acer monitor, etc. It's going to hurt shutting this beast down someday.
I do have a Win 7 box sitting in the closet that I picked up from w*rk that was used as a local print server at one time. That is my back up when my XP machine dies...(whenever that will be)!
I do have a Win 7 box sitting in the closet that I picked up from w*rk that was used as a local print server at one time. That is my back up when my XP machine dies...(whenever that will be)!
That's only half the point. The pain of upgrade is one thing, having to deal with the new operating system is another. OSX was great within a few months of its introduction. Vista was a goat rodeo that festered for two years. Let's hope they do better with Windows 8
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veremchuka
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Obviously you have a great dislike of VISTA. When I retired I needed a new pc as I was now not able to do my surfing at work and bought a custom made local machine. It used VISTA HP 64 bit as the OS. I could have chosen XP and we used XP-Pro in work for years but I went with VISTA as it was the new OS, this was 4/2008. VISTA looked a bit different but I was able to figure it out no big deal. It is running just fine, it has always run just fine and I have no desire to change the OS. If this machine is running OK in 2017 then I'll upgrade when support is dropped.
It seems to me people that use Apple products have a sense of superiority that they are above us mere MS mortals. Now I have never used any Apple products so they may well be the cats meow but "goat rodeo"? Come on.
OP
OP
easysurfer
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I've been on both sides.
Back when I used to w*rk, the place was primarily Win. But I like the old pre-OS X Apple.
In the meantime, I hated Win 98 (crashed on me almost every time) but it took a long time for me to trust another system by Windows called XP. When Apple OS X came along, I went Apple, but found that not as easy to use as Pre OS X. Maybe had I waited until later releases, I would've been happy at the Apple side. Instead, I actually came to like XP and at that time, compared to both OS X and Win 98, XP was much more stable (plus, seemed more organized).
I hated Vista, and when I've dodged Win 8 (but it seems like folks on 8.1 are happy). I think one problem with Vista and the initial start up of 8 (helped a sister who said she didn't know how to use her PC because of the tiles) is both were a bit insulting (too much hand holding). Like on Vista, the reminders "Do you want to delete, Do you really want to delete? Are you sure? (I exaggerated a bit, but you get the picture).
So for now, I moving toward Win 7 (if I can only get a darn graphics card installed properly
).
Back when I used to w*rk, the place was primarily Win. But I like the old pre-OS X Apple.
In the meantime, I hated Win 98 (crashed on me almost every time) but it took a long time for me to trust another system by Windows called XP. When Apple OS X came along, I went Apple, but found that not as easy to use as Pre OS X. Maybe had I waited until later releases, I would've been happy at the Apple side. Instead, I actually came to like XP and at that time, compared to both OS X and Win 98, XP was much more stable (plus, seemed more organized).
I hated Vista, and when I've dodged Win 8 (but it seems like folks on 8.1 are happy). I think one problem with Vista and the initial start up of 8 (helped a sister who said she didn't know how to use her PC because of the tiles) is both were a bit insulting (too much hand holding). Like on Vista, the reminders "Do you want to delete, Do you really want to delete? Are you sure? (I exaggerated a bit, but you get the picture).
So for now, I moving toward Win 7 (if I can only get a darn graphics card installed properly
).meierlde
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IN that case another option is to buy 8.1 pro and use the Hyper-v to run a copy of XP as a guest on the system. (Could also use the equivalent feature in Windows 7 as well). One question is how does the sewing machine connect to the computer, and if that would work with the virutal machine model. Note that if you have old old dos programs there are programs like Dosbox that will install a dos vm on windows and let you run Wfw 3.11 in the box.
OP
OP
easysurfer
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Well...got my computer set up for Win 7.
So I can officially say I'm all good to go come April 8
So I can officially say I'm all good to go come April 8
seraphim
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Already handled that problem a long time ago - switched to Linux for those (now) rare occasions I use a PC. Got tired of buying new OS all the time, then needing to buy more advanced hardware to run the grossly over designed software. Didn't get to FIRE by wasting money.
meierlde
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The only Windows XP machine I have left (a laptop) is effectively now a WMA Player attached to a component stero, since the cd player attached to it died. Its much easier if you rip the cds to a file and you can play a long playlist. Since I no longer web surf on it, and it is behind a firewall, it should be safe.
If I still needed XP software I would look at going to a virtual machine on windows 7 or 8.
If I still needed XP software I would look at going to a virtual machine on windows 7 or 8.
ls99
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Today I took dive into Linux.
Have DW's hand me down Dell 4550 PC. She decided to go with a Laptop to replace the boat anchor tower. Her laptop came with win 8.1 which I promptly modified with the classic interface insted of the stupid tiles which she hated.
The upshot is that I got .iso of Linux Mint 16 which I burned to DVD. 1.2 GB. Then discovered that the machine has no DVD. Today got a 8 GB Usb stick for $9.-.
Got the .iso written to the stick. Then found the machine had no bios support for USB boot. On to getting a multi boot program onto a CD.
Now was ready for the install. Booted the Dell, which booted to CD, which gave option to boot from USB. Up came Linux Mint. It recognized the 1440x900 native resolution of the display which XP never managed. The OS ran from the USB.
Took the option to install on the hard drive. 20 minutes later it was up and running. Another 10minutes and automatic updates of all the latest packages system was finalized, with Firefox, Thunderbird, an open office version of everything MS office dooes, VLC and a bunch more stuff. Another 5 minutes to sync favorites to Firefox. And I was online. Did al the nework configuration with no input from me. Found all the pc's on the network. And it did not need to reboot dozens of times to get to final configuration.
Last time I dealt with any flavor of Unix was some 30 years ago, on Sun systems.
Awesome. At no cost and no authorization garbage with mixrosoft.
The last time I had to install XP, took some 4 hours and a whole lot of misery in getting it authorized, updated, find drivers, homogenized. And then some more hours installing User software. Reboouting constantly.
Bottom line, as time passes, Microsoft will be eradicated on my machines, especially if can run my OBDII automotive diagnostics progrms via WINE under linux. Am back to being unix/linux newbie. Need to rejuvenate some long dormant brain cells.
Have DW's hand me down Dell 4550 PC. She decided to go with a Laptop to replace the boat anchor tower. Her laptop came with win 8.1 which I promptly modified with the classic interface insted of the stupid tiles which she hated.
The upshot is that I got .iso of Linux Mint 16 which I burned to DVD. 1.2 GB. Then discovered that the machine has no DVD. Today got a 8 GB Usb stick for $9.-.
Got the .iso written to the stick. Then found the machine had no bios support for USB boot. On to getting a multi boot program onto a CD.
Now was ready for the install. Booted the Dell, which booted to CD, which gave option to boot from USB. Up came Linux Mint. It recognized the 1440x900 native resolution of the display which XP never managed. The OS ran from the USB.
Took the option to install on the hard drive. 20 minutes later it was up and running. Another 10minutes and automatic updates of all the latest packages system was finalized, with Firefox, Thunderbird, an open office version of everything MS office dooes, VLC and a bunch more stuff. Another 5 minutes to sync favorites to Firefox. And I was online. Did al the nework configuration with no input from me. Found all the pc's on the network. And it did not need to reboot dozens of times to get to final configuration.
Last time I dealt with any flavor of Unix was some 30 years ago, on Sun systems.
Awesome. At no cost and no authorization garbage with mixrosoft.
The last time I had to install XP, took some 4 hours and a whole lot of misery in getting it authorized, updated, find drivers, homogenized. And then some more hours installing User software. Reboouting constantly.
Bottom line, as time passes, Microsoft will be eradicated on my machines, especially if can run my OBDII automotive diagnostics progrms via WINE under linux. Am back to being unix/linux newbie. Need to rejuvenate some long dormant brain cells.
aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
I'm about to install Mint on my desktop (Win XP box - custom built be me) and will try it in a virtual partition. If I like it, I can do a clean install later. I hope it finds my networked printers.
ERD50
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Sounds good. FYI, the next LTS (14.04) version of Ubuntu (which Mint is based on) will be out next month, Mint LTS should be pretty close behind.
When I did a fresh install of 12.04, I looked at Mint and I liked it. For reasons that I do not recall now (Mint was pretty new then), I went with Xubuntu instead. I'll take another look at each shortly after the LTS release.
I recently purchased an HL-2270DW Brother networked printer. I haven't had any problems getting it set up, and my Linux and DW & DD's Macs print it it as well.
IIRC, and I don't think it was related to Linux, but I think I did hit some bumps trying to get to the printer with it connected wirelessly to the router. But my router is near the printer, so I connected an Ethernet cable from router to printer, and that worked. All the computers are wireless as they print.
-ERD50
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aja8888
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ls99
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I have not yet installed remote printer. At first look my Epson 845 is not listed. When I get back to it will try the internet printer finder. This machine is in my basement workshop. It was a curiosity thing, with a pleasant surprise.
Seems Linux mint is updated aboy every six months. I'll need to learn mpre about what that means. Though I figure once it is fully up and runing, stop messing with success, unless a real good reason is found.
ERD50, Thanks for info on Ubuntu base.
Seems Linux mint is updated aboy every six months. I'll need to learn mpre about what that means. Though I figure once it is fully up and runing, stop messing with success, unless a real good reason is found.
ERD50, Thanks for info on Ubuntu base.
ls99
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Update on the Linux adventure.
Am writing this on the Linux OS, Firefox on the Dell. Some looking about and found a .deb package for the Epson 845 printer on the Epson website. They claim no support, but had two versions for this printer, one was .rpm. Good thing as the .rpm would have to be converted to .deb for MINT.
Downloaded and used GDebi package installer, which got all the necessary support files and installed the printer driver. I had reconfigured the printer to run in wireless mode as a network printer. Previously it was USB wired to my Sony all in one. Successfully found the printer on the network. Actually was easier than on win7. Te system associated the driver with the printer. Sent a test page. Success!
If I get ambitious wil get the .deb file for the scanner feature. In two years have yet to scan anything to PC, so may not actually happen unless curiosity gets the better of me.
Am writing this on the Linux OS, Firefox on the Dell. Some looking about and found a .deb package for the Epson 845 printer on the Epson website. They claim no support, but had two versions for this printer, one was .rpm. Good thing as the .rpm would have to be converted to .deb for MINT.
Downloaded and used GDebi package installer, which got all the necessary support files and installed the printer driver. I had reconfigured the printer to run in wireless mode as a network printer. Previously it was USB wired to my Sony all in one. Successfully found the printer on the network. Actually was easier than on win7. Te system associated the driver with the printer. Sent a test page. Success!
If I get ambitious wil get the .deb file for the scanner feature. In two years have yet to scan anything to PC, so may not actually happen unless curiosity gets the better of me.
