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View Poll Results: What Will You Do When Support For Windows XP Ends on April 8th?
I'll take my chances - I'm staying with XP 30 26.55%
Change is good - I'm going with Win 8. I want my desktop to look like a phone 0 0%
Change is required (but I long for the past) - I'm going with Win 8, but going to use Classic Shell to make my desktop look like Win XP or Win 7 3 2.65%
I've already upgraded to Win 7 or 8 55 48.67%
I don't to Windows 14 12.39%
Other 11 9.73%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-07-2014, 01:17 PM   #41
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One theory is that the bad guys are waiting in the wings for April 9 so they can unleash their software exploits, knowing MS won't fix the security holes.
My understanding is that about 95% of the ATM machines are on XP
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:47 PM   #42
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One theory is that the bad guys are waiting in the wings for April 9 so they can unleash their software exploits, knowing MS won't fix the security holes.
Even if they don't have any exploits in their pockets, on May 13, Microsoft will announce faults in other Windows OS's that are also in WinXP, in essence leading the bad guys to a whole list of XP's faults that will not be patched.
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Old 03-07-2014, 02:42 PM   #43
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Organizations (and people) have to start taking responsibility for keeping their computing resources up to date. I know people don't want to acknowledge that as their responsibility, and I know that people don't want to acknowledge that when they buy software they're buying something that will be supported for only a limited time, but there is no defense for refusing to admit the reality.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:20 PM   #44
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Switched to Macs a few years ago. Never looked back!
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:43 PM   #45
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Switched to Macs a few years ago. Never looked back!
Is Apple doing security updates all the way back to the early OSX versions (IMO 10.3 was the first actual public release, 1 & 2 should count as betas)? I really don't know.

UPDATE - a search says:

Quote:
As of July 23, 2012, the Software Update feature of Mac OS X v10.3 and earlier is no longer available, but you can manually download any updates that are still available.
Hmmm, as much as it pains me to credit MS in any way, it seems that they are supporting XP (2001-2014) far longer than Apple supported 10.3 (2003-2012).


My Linux 12.04 release (that is April 2012) is an LTS (Long Term Support) version that is supported out to Q3 -2017. Later this year I'll probably upgrade to 14.04 (or just buy a new machine and install fresh), which is another LTS. That will take me out to Q3 2019.

The world will be a different place by then!

I might keep those old Linux versions active even after they don't get security updates, but they'll be stripped of any personal data of any importance, and probably won't even go on the web that much. I'll use them as music servers or for other 'internal' stuff.


-ERD50
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Old 03-08-2014, 04:48 AM   #46
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Is Apple doing security updates all the way back to the early OSX versions (IMO 10.3 was the first actual public release, 1 & 2 should count as betas)? I really don't know.
Microsoft's policy is 10 years, and for XP they've made an exception extending that to 13 years. Apple's policy is 5 years. Lots of people like to tout their preference for Apple over Microsoft without realizing that Microsoft provides better substantive support. Apple's forte is provision of better tenor of support. They work to make their customers feel better about their purchases as compared to Microsoft, especially early on. But when push comes to shove, with Apple, their answer is much more quickly to have customers spend more money.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:15 AM   #47
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I have an ancient computerized embroidery sewing machine which needs both the Win95 laptop and the XP laptop to make and edit stitches and patterns. I have neutered the computers and do not connect to the Internet. Other than those, my spouse finally lured me to the Mac side, with a whisper quiet Macbook Air.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:03 PM   #48
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I just got a reminder pop up on my XP computer suggesting I get Win 8.1.

Support is ending for Windows XP - Microsoft Windows

Hmm....just round the time of daylight savings time. Coincidence or planned?
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:45 PM   #49
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Original Vista support expired 2010
Service pack 2 expired Apr. 2012 (mainstream support)
Extended support expires Apr 2017
I don't understand your post. I have Vista Home Premium and I get antivirus and Windows updates regularly.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:20 PM   #50
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My understanding is that about 95% of the ATM machines are on XP
Well most ATM ran OS/2 for a decade after offical vedor support ceased. That vendor provided support for that unsupported OS, at a very profitable margin.

If the ATMs are now XP based, I'm sure Microsoft will be happy to provide support, at a very profitable rate.

Most individuals couldn't afford to pay those fees.

I'm running 7, glad to find out folks running 8.1 are having a better user experience.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:24 PM   #51
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I switched to Mac when they tried to Vista me.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:30 PM   #52
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Microsoft's policy is 10 years, and for XP they've made an exception extending that to 13 years. Apple's policy is 5 years. Lots of people like to tout their preference for Apple over Microsoft without realizing that Microsoft provides better substantive support. Apple's forte is provision of better tenor of support. They work to make their customers feel better about their purchases as compared to Microsoft, especially early on. But when push comes to shove, with Apple, their answer is much more quickly to have customers spend more money.
Then again, A shorter support window is fine when the upgrade is easy, cheap, and relatively problem free. I need a 10 year support window on XP if someone throws a PoS like Vista at me. I've never needed that in the years I've been with Mac.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:46 PM   #53
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Would those be on 5.25" "floppy" disks?
Gee have not looked at this thread in a while.

Looking through the collection, Dos is on 5.25, and win 3.11 on 3. 5s. win 95 on 3.5 floppes, do have 95 on CD as well.

Amazing, the stuff I find in the basement.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:57 PM   #54
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Talk about old stuff. Just upgraded to Xp from win2K on a 233 Mhz Toshiba laptop with 96 Mb of memory. Had to delete a bunch of stuff from Xp to load it on a 4 gig hard drive, now have 1.8 gig oof unused space.

This machine rides in my suburban, use it to monitor my monster modified 7.4 engine. Would love to go to linux, but the engine monitor software has no unix compilable version.

The Toshiba is more 25 years old, original hard drive. It is better than the energizer bunny.
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Old 03-09-2014, 05:09 AM   #55
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I don't understand your post. I have Vista Home Premium and I get antivirus and Windows updates regularly.
Mainstream support for Windows Vista ended in 2012. If you're still getting Windows updates regularly then you paid for extended support, which ends in 2017.

Antivirus updates have nothing to do with the security updates discussed earlier.

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Well most ATM ran OS/2 for a decade after offical vedor support ceased. That vendor provided support for that unsupported OS, at a very profitable margin. If the ATMs are now XP based, I'm sure Microsoft will be happy to provide support, at a very profitable rate.
There is a limit to how long even Microsoft will support an OS. In the case of ATMs, the version of the operating system that they use has extended support available (for an additional fee) until 2016.

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Then again, A shorter support window is fine when the upgrade is easy, cheap, and relatively problem free.
There is no appreciable difference between the expediency of upgrading to Macintosh OS X and of upgrading to Microsoft Windows 7 or to Microsoft Windows 8.

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I need a 10 year support window on XP if someone throws a PoS like Vista at me.
Talking about Vista after Windows 7 and Windows 8 is like talking about Nazi Germany almost seven decades later.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:24 AM   #56
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It is attitudes like that expressed in the article linked below that make me long for the day when I can afford to retire from the industry.

Perspective: Microsoft risks security reputation ruin by retiring XP - Computerworld

Here you see an industry analyst essentially laying the groundwork for some kind of "I told you so" idiocy that he would post sometime in the future, cynically presuming (and probably correctly so) that the fact that he expressed his vacuous expectations in the past would be enough to foster cognitive dissonance in readers of his later ranting, prompting them to ignore the unreasonable nature of those expectations.

Our society is rife with incidence of irrational sense of entitlement - in all quarters, not just with regard to the purchase of software, but I think the nature of software, as something that some people have a inanely self-serving incapacity to acknowledge has value in the same way that a laptop computer has value, makes it a frequent victim of the pervasive irrational sense of entitlement in society. It's one thing to see the phenomenon in action - it is even worse to see someone standing on a respected soapbox seek to exploit this societal illness.

Perhaps you have to be in the industry to understand the nature of what we're talking about. Software support is not something that you have bottled up on the shelf, and can decide willy-nilly whether to offer it for sale on a whim. The cost of sustaining engineering substantially increases as the need for it decreases. This isn't just a matter of economies of scale (but that is part of it), but also a matter of resource management. To a great extent, high quality sustaining engineering relies on institutional memory: People who are working developing and extending the software day in and day out generally have the ability to recognize or efficiently identify the source of a problem. As people move onto other projects, the risk of offering sustaining engineering increases, as fewer and fewer people have less and less retention of institutional memory that can be applied to diagnosis and remediation of problems. So you're faced with either the cost of that risk, or the cost of maintaining people in positions that are effectively earning you little or no profit, doing work that is little more than busywork (because customers that have stuck with a technologies long after it is been superseded by newer technologies also resent any substantive changes you make to the product), simply to maintain sufficient institutional memory to support the ability to do effective sustaining engineering.

Microsoft faces another problem, that we don't face at my company - that offering extended support indefinitely depresses their new license revenue stream. It is absolutely fair for them to present an offer to customer and expect the customer to abide by the agreement, not only the logistical realities of the agreement but also the spirit of the agreement. Buying something that comes with ten years of support and then in any way begrudging the ending of the support after ten years is disingenuous. It shows a lack of character, in my opinion.

We all wish that everything we buy is exceedingly inexpensive, and at the same time we wish superlative compensation for what we offer. We all wish that everything we buy has perfect quality, forever, and at the same time we wish people to expect nothing more from us than our best efforts. It is really important to recognize that the green characteristics and the purple characteristics work against each other.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:10 AM   #57
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Who'd a thunk Mr Godwin would make an appearance on a software thread? I guess emotions can run high on this topic as well. At any rate, I wasn't trying to dredge up old history (if 2008 can be considered old history). It just happened to be my experience that it was Vista that drove me away from Windows.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:14 AM   #58
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I suspect moving to OSX from the previous architecture was painful indeed. Fortunately for me I moved to Mac well after that, and every subsequent upgrade has been easy and totally uneventful. Actually I once had to wait a few weeks for Canon to release a new driver to get all the features of my scanner to work. Other than than, it's been a breeze.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:29 AM   #59
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Then again, A shorter support window is fine when the upgrade is easy, cheap, and relatively problem free.

Good point. My 5 year old MacBook runs the latest OS very well. Upgrade cost was $0.

My friend's 7 year old iMac could not be upgraded. But, it still runs like a charm.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:32 AM   #60
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Who'd a thunk Mr Godwin would make an appearance on a software thread?
Freud was wrong: Sometimes a pencil is just a pencil.

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I suspect moving to OSX from the previous architecture was painful indeed. Fortunately for me I moved to Mac well after that, and every subsequent upgrade has been easy and totally uneventful.
And that's really the point: We don't talk about upgrades to MacOS solely in terms of the upgrade to OSX, and we therefore shouldn't talk about upgrades to Windows solely in terms of the upgrade to Vista.
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