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View Poll Results: Do You Plan to Upgrade to Windows 10?
Yes - I want the "Latest and Greatest" 63 22.91%
Yes - But only when forced to 64 23.27%
No - I'm sticking to Win 8, 8.1 18 6.55%
No - I'm sticking to Win 7, XP or prior 74 26.91%
I don't do Windows 39 14.18%
Other 17 6.18%
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:58 AM   #101
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It will be interesting to hear about how the free upgrade goes on existing machines, with years of crud slowly built up. Always interesting times.

How will M$ monetize so many free installs?

Apple is trying to push an update 8.4 to my lowly iPhone 4. It will get me access to a revolutionary music service. No thanks.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:12 AM   #102
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I'm confused about that as well. Most people don't pay for extended support, so what do you really get? Checking... you do get security patches, but not non-security patches. Those are updates that make old operating systems compatible with new extensions and adjuncts, such as updates to address time zone changes, updates to plug memory leaks, updates to address OS freezes when encountering previously unexpected errors, updates for new encryption modes for thumb drives, etc.

Regardless, whether it was last year or four years from now, there is a date after which security patches end.
Extended support, with security patches, will come until January 14, 2020. That's official, until another announcement comes along. New features won't be added. No big deal, as I see it.

Here is an issue, that needs understanding. Let's say a program becomes inoperable after a security patch, like Notepad. They have to fix this, I must guess, since I won't take the time to read all the license nonsense, and if I did, I would not understand it.

I also am guessing that the items you listed that won't be updated, such as time zone, memory leaks, etc., all have security implications, and would have to be fixed. If they weren't, the USG would get mightily p'od.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:49 PM   #103
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Extended support, with security patches, will come until January 14, 2020.
Extended support for us is just security updates. Non-security updates are not provided to home users. That's pretty much what I told you in the correction of my July 4 message that I posted yesterday.

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New features won't be added. No big deal, as I see it.
Features are never added in updates. Updates are added in updates. What you'll lose out on are the kind of remedies I mentioned earlier.
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Those are updates that make old operating systems compatible with new extensions and adjuncts, such as updates to address time zone changes, updates to plug memory leaks, updates to address OS freezes when encountering previously unexpected errors, updates for new encryption modes for thumb drives, etc.
Those descriptions came from non-security updates. If you want a view of what kind of things non-security updates include and compare that to what security updates include, go through the KB articles on MSDN and review the list of updates for each non-security and security update.

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Here is an issue, that needs understanding. Let's say a program becomes inoperable after a security patch, like Notepad. They have to fix this, I must guess, since I won't take the time to read all the license nonsense, and if I did, I would not understand it.
If a security update breaks an operating system function, they probably will fix it, but I cannot remember when Notepad was broken by a security update. That sounds like a stretch. More typically, security updates break other companies' software, or deliberately disable previously-working functionality. In those cases they won't do anything.

We had a situation in 2006 when a Microsoft security patch actually killbit'ed a fundamental function that our company's software solution relied on heavily. Microsoft offered no remediation for the issue. In their view, the security matter was higher priority, and we were obligated to rewrite our software to adjust to the impact of their security update.

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I also am guessing that the items you listed that won't be updated, such as time zone, memory leaks, etc., all have security implications, and would have to be fixed.
Incorrect. You're just wishful thinking there.

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If they weren't, the USG would get mightily p'od.
The United States government pays for (or otherwise has) Premier Support, just like most businesses do. As long as they purchased corporate licenses for the OS's they used, instead of purchasing less expensive consumer licenses for their OS's, and they have paid for Premier Support from Microsoft, then they will receive non-security updates.

We won't.

That's the difference between how this will affect us versus how it will affect businesses.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:18 PM   #104
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Extended support for us is just security updates. Non-security updates are not provided to home users. That's pretty much what I told you in the correction of my July 4 message that I posted yesterday.

Features are never added in updates. Updates are added in updates. What you'll lose out on are the kind of remedies I mentioned earlier.Those descriptions came from non-security updates. If you want a view of what kind of things non-security updates include and compare that to what security updates include, go through the KB articles on MSDN and review the list of updates for each non-security and security update.

If a security update breaks an operating system function, they probably will fix it, but I cannot remember when Notepad was broken by a security update. That sounds like a stretch. More typically, security updates break other companies' software, or deliberately disable previously-working functionality. In those cases they won't do anything.

We had a situation in 2006 when a Microsoft security patch actually killbit'ed a fundamental function that our company's software solution relied on heavily. Microsoft offered no remediation for the issue. In their view, the security matter was higher priority, and we were obligated to rewrite our software to adjust to the impact of their security update.

Incorrect. You're just wishful thinking there.

The United States government pays for (or otherwise has) Premier Support, just like most businesses do. As long as they purchased corporate licenses for the OS's they used, instead of purchasing less expensive consumer licenses for their OS's, and they have paid for Premier Support from Microsoft, then they will receive non-security updates.

We won't.

That's the difference between how this will affect us versus how it will affect businesses.
Ummm, time functions are always security-related. I'm not going to extend this discussion much, cause you sound angry. I think we're repeating ourselves. But if you think about it, logging and other security measures become flawed if time isn't kept correctly. Issues of time-keeping and proper time being available are written into all security standards.

If M$ patches, and Adobe whatever breaks, Adobe must fix. So I am not quite sure what all the smoke is about.

I will be fine with Windows 7 and whatever M$ gives me until 2020. I suspect most will be, as our needs are simple.

I am out of this thread. Thanks for your input.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:38 PM   #105
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Reading posts like these makes me so glad I walked away from the Microsoft world several years ago. I just got tired of the constant updates, security issues, malware and virus issues....

Apple ain't perfect, but it's miles more user friendly than Windows, imho....
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No kidding, as an ex-engineer, the last thing I wanted to do (and still) is to come home and fight with computers....it...should...just...work...:facepalm :
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But what is the compelling reason to upgrade?


I hate software - I always have something go wrong with upgrades or patches.


What does Win10 have or offer that warrants the hassle/effort/risk of upgrading?
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You have to wait for that....then...it'll be too late.
All of the above, particularly BBQ-Nut's observations. As was also stated, given its history, can Microsoft pull it off? That's one racehorse I'm not willing to bet on. At least until they've cleaned a bit of the blood off the track from the "early adopters."
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:21 PM   #106
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Getting broad Win10 adoption helps with compatibility issues by reducing the long tail of down-level client variations. Being in the web industry, I certainly wish MS had gone to a "one latest version" of Internet Explorer the way Chrome and others went with auto-updates... one variation for Chrome vs all these down-level, ill-tempered IE versions with frickin laser beams. It blows up your test matrix and makes maintaining chunky monkey down-level scripting support a requirement that takes away from feature development.

Moving everyone forward also helps with a renewed monetization push for apps (Windows Store) and services (Office 365 subs, OneDrive subs). Now a team can focus on upsell & reducing drop-off points for one larger audience vs splitting their resource doing such for several down-level variations: Win8, Win8.1, Win10, Win11, etc.

Giving away the OS was a pressure OEMs & system builders had been leaning on for a while, because in the XP/Win7 heydeys the licensing costs were so high resellers barely made a profit. Perhaps this move will help decrease the amount of crapware OEMs ship on their device because they don't have to cut said deals, because the license cost is lower/non-existent. It can even become a selling point for clued-in OEMs: "Our Foo laptops don't ship with bloatware and are the most reliable in the industry!"

"If it's not a Foo, shame on you!"
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:58 AM   #107
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I'm not going to extend this discussion much, cause you sound angry.
Not at all. My interest is solely to ensure folks don't make decisions for themselves about upgrading based on your overly optimistic view of what Microsoft will or will not do. Microsoft doesn't always choose to see things that way you would want.

Dozens of non-security Windows updates on Patch Tuesday | ZDNet

As I advised earlier, see for yourself what the actual difference between security updates and non-security updates has been by researching what has been included in each type of update in the past, instead of relying on someone's gut feel or sense of what would be proper.

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It blows up your test matrix and makes maintaining chunky monkey down-level scripting support a requirement that takes away from feature development.
And that's probably the main reason for the change in branding from IE to Edge. I am also looking forward to the day when I can say that our company's products run equally well on Chrome, Edge, Firefox, and Safari, without having to specify versions because the standard will always be "latest version".
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:44 PM   #108
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................

How will M$ monetize so many free installs?

...........
By selling upgrades to Office and other stuff?
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:53 PM   #109
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I work on a Windows machine every day at work. Why would I want to work on that OS at home? Not. Mac OSX everywhere but the coal mine.
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Old 07-10-2015, 03:35 PM   #110
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The last bit of clarity to be resolved concerning windows 10 centers upon the subscription issue - do I own it for the life of my computer, or will there be some sort of fee in the future?
I just read this Forbes article that adds a wrinkle to the "free" Win 10 upgrade decision. Also, check out the link in the article to 'Win 10 upgrades cannot be stopped'

Quote:
Windows 10 is famously ‘free’, but Microsoft has been worryingly silent about just how free it really is. Now, only three weeks before release, leaks suggest ‘free’ Windows 10 might not be a good deal at all…
Quote:
‘Device life’ is the key phrase here. Microsoft has already stated revenue earned from Windows 10 must be deferred because of the free upgrade model (cash isn’t taken upfront), but it repeatedly stressed Windows 10 owners can expect to get free updates for the “supported lifetime of the device”.
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The problem is Microsoft hadn’t defined how long the ‘supported lifetime of the device’ will be and now we see it: “two to four years”.
'Free' Windows 10 Now Looks A Terrible Deal - Forbes
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:10 AM   #111
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So, over the last few days, I've been thinking more about my OS future when Windows 7 goes on death row in a few years.

I've been reading up about Windows 10 (especially the lack of privacy thing) and been playing around with Linux Mint. The last fews days for personal clarity on what to do. My plan is to still keep using Win 7 for as long as that OS is updated (But might upgrade to Win 10 (within the 1 year freebie time frame to get the unique IDs of my computers in Microsoft's server ). Then go back to Win 7).

In the meantime, this past few days, I've messed around with Linux Mint. First trying to use on my Win desktop. Installing, uninstalling, trying to run as a virtual machine (VM) on my desktop -- didn't go that well. Then finally using Linux Mint to install XP as a VM. I'm gonna need a spare, fixer upper laptop to play some more with mint.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:28 AM   #112
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I have Win 10 on my old desktop and it seems OK after I shut off all the intrusion/advertising features. Maybe I'll not roll it back.

But on my laptop, which apparently has downloaded the Win 10 folder, and I have not installed it, I keep getting a square "reminder to upgrade/install" rectangular pop up above the right corner of the system tray each time I start the machine. I can't find a solution to stop this pop up from occurring and I wish to keep Win 10 available.

Anybody have a solution to turn off this reminder pop up?
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:31 AM   #113
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Anybody have a solution to turn off this reminder pop up?
I know you don't have me on ignore, so I'm not sure how you missed this...

Windows 10
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:32 AM   #114
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Windows 10 report

I'm loving Windows 10 and my new computer that came with Windows 10 pre-installed.

Privacy and security will probably always be a concern for me, to a limited extent. I lead the stereotypical little-old-lady life which is pretty mundane, so I don't do anything especially shocking or need a high level of privacy. But, being older, I grew up in an era when privacy was more highly valued than it is now. It matters to me.

Because I am still concerned about security/privacy, at this stage I am not using all the features of Windows 10, such as Cortana, establishing a Microsoft account, using the cloud, and numerous other new features. Also I have spent hours configuring the settings, reading about potential privacy/security problems and how to avoid them, and looking all over my computer to see if there are any other things I can or should do. I think that *probably* I have it locked down pretty well.

Other than that, it is great! Everything is so fast, which might either be due to Windows 10, or my new upscale computer, or both. I am loving the opportunity to explore the new operating system and to see what improvements they have made.

So far I haven't had any glitches or issues at all with Windows 10, even tiny ones. It has functioned exactly as Microsoft intended for it to function.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:59 AM   #115
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In the meantime, this past few days, I've messed around with Linux Mint. First trying to use on my Win desktop. Installing, uninstalling, trying to run as a virtual machine (VM) on my desktop -- didn't go that well. Then finally using Linux Mint to install XP as a VM. I'm gonna need a spare, fixer upper laptop to play some more with mint.
For most people you are limited to windows, linux or OSX. I tend choose my operating system, but for most consumers you probably need to look at what software product you have that you can't do without and choose the OS that supports it. There are products that are windows only ( like quicken that many here use ), Mac only or linux centric.

With linux you have lots of choices of how you want it to looks and feel. For windows 7 refugees Zorin OS has good reviews , Make Switching From Windows To Linux Easier With Zorin OS
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:13 AM   #116
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I'm loving Windows 10 and my new computer that came with Windows 10 pre-installed.

Privacy and security will probably always be a concern for me, to a limited extent. I lead the stereotypical little-old-lady life which is pretty mundane, so I don't do anything especially shocking or need a high level of privacy. But, being older, I grew up in an era when privacy was more highly valued than it is now. It matters to me.

Because I am still concerned about security/privacy, at this stage I am not using all the features of Windows 10, such as Cortana, establishing a Microsoft account, using the cloud, and numerous other new features. Also I have spent hours configuring the settings, reading about potential privacy/security problems and how to avoid them, and looking all over my computer to see if there are any other things I can or should do. I think that *probably* I have it locked down pretty well.

Other than that, it is great! Everything is so fast, which might either be due to Windows 10, or my new upscale computer, or both. I am loving the opportunity to explore the new operating system and to see what improvements they have made.

So far I haven't had any glitches or issues at all with Windows 10, even tiny ones. It has functioned exactly as Microsoft intended for it to function.
After a lot of thought, I really think that Windows as a service could be a very good thing. Granted, one doesn't want to broadcast too much of their personal info.

I think a potential problem is the forced updates. I guess that's a problem with some gamers and those (myself included) who use a NIVIDA graphics card. I think the manufacturer has a recent driver, but then the forced Windows update replaces that. Plus, I think there's no way to filter out certain updates with the home version.

Here's a site that goes in detail (with graphics ) about the various privacy settings:

https://fix10.isleaked.com/

There's also software that does settings for you.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:14 AM   #117
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I know you don't have me on ignore, so I'm not sure how you missed this...

Windows 10


Thanks, but I really don't want to remove the entire update that was sent down (the 5 GB folder) as I may want to install Win 10 later. The pop up is annoying and that is what I want to stop showing up each time I start the laptop. I would think there is a way to do that, even if it is a registry edit, but I have not been able to find that solution.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:20 AM   #118
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Thanks, but I really don't want to remove the entire update that was sent down (the 5 GB folder) as I may want to install Win 10 later. The pop up is annoying and that is what I want to stop showing up each time I start the laptop. I would think there is a way to do that, even if it is a registry edit, but I have not been able to find that solution.
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It might be that pesky KB30355834, but even if you uninstall it, MS will install it again later as another update. That's been my experience.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:32 AM   #119
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I upgraded from 8 to 10 ... and I do not see any major pros or cons.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:42 AM   #120
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I downloaded the installation files to a USB key so that I could delete the 10-15 GB of installation files on my hard disk. There were 2 $Windows folders on my drive, one of them taking up 10 GB.
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