Possible to dispute a car booting charge on my CC?

[soupcxan]

Ok, so I wasn't paying attention tonight and I parked in a strip mall parking lot and then went over to the "real" mall next door, and when I came back I found they had booted my car. So I gave him my credit card for $50 to get the damn thing off my car, because what choice did I have? This was a private booting agency (some guy in a van, driving around the lot, looking for people to boot) not a law enforcement official.

I'm looking for advice - is there any reasonable strategy I can use to dispute this charge with my credit card agency? Can I argue I was unfairly booted? That the guy had no authority to boot my car? That he needs to prove I never went to the shops in the strip mall or provide some photographic evidence the car was even there? If anyone has successfully disputed this, I would appreciate if you could share. I'm going to dispute the charge regardless, just so I can cause some extra hassle for the booting agency and drive up their chargeback fees...but I'd like the best shot possible at beating the charge.

And if you're going to moralize about my parking where I shouldn't, please keep it to yourself. I wasn't in a fire zone or blocking traffic...the stupid parking lot wasn't even half full and I was parked as far away from the front of the stores as possible, so I wasn't keeping a legitimate customer from getting a good space.

[JPatrick]

A couple of points:
I'd make an informal check with local law enforcement or the city atty's office* basically to learn about the reg these guys are using.* From that perhaps some tips will flow from which you can put something together.* You need to show that they acted improperly in your case.
I believe the CC company will want some sort of proof you tried to settle this with the boot guys and failed to get a reasonable response. You may need to present a strong case to the booters (in writing)* and then pull the charge.
This happened to me once. I came back to the car to find it booted and the wrecker getting ready to tow me away.* Luckily, (I guess), it became quickly apparent that the tow driver was strung out on something so I told him I was going to report the car stolen and let him imagine what would happen when he got pulled over.* He let me go.

[kramer]

In California you have to have written permission from the owner before towing. You should investigate if it is the same where you live.

There used to be a problem in San Francisco with tow trucks driving around and towing away people illegally parked on private property. All you had to do was ask for the proof of permission from the owner to get out of it, but most did not do that because they did not know to ask. At some point, the city busted a bunch of these towing truck people for this criminal activity.

Kramer

[gratefuled]

In the UK you could have called Angle Grinder Man.

http://www.anglegrinderman.org/

I don't know, Soup...I'd be tempted to apply some focused anarchy in this case. Plenty of ways to cause that guy and those mall owners more than $50 worth of trouble, even if you get this wretched charge off your card.

Ed

[Outtahere]

I do all the chargebacks for my company, trust me the cardmember does not have to prove that they tried to settle it first, just put in the charge back. I also found out from American Express that the cardmember can just keep disputing it forever. It's a totally insane proceedure that drives me nuts, I fight them constantly, I win about half, it's not a large amount but it's a matter of principal to me - you read the instructions, agreed to it now you want to dispute it? No on my watch!!!

[Nords]

I've never been booted, so here's a dumb question:* what does the boot attach to?*

Could you take the tire/boot off the car, throw the whole mess in the trunk (or should we call that a "boot" now), and drive with the spare?

[Martha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords I've never been booted, so here's a dumb question: what does the boot attach to? Could you take the tire/boot off the car, throw the whole mess in the trunk (or should we call that a "boot" now), and drive with the spare?

http://wctproducts.com/immobilizer_menu.htm

[Nords]

Ooooh, bummer.

[maddythebeagle]

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Info/boot.html

[Jay_Gatsby]

Please don't take this as legal advice, but you might argue as a basis for disputing the charge that the tow truck driver "forced" you to use your credit card to pay him off -- otherwise he would have "stolen" your car. By "stolen" I mean that the tow truck driver would have (and apparently had already) exercised "dominion and control" over your property with no intention of returning it to you absent payment. The situation could possibly be deemed one of "economic duress" or extortion, thereby absolving you of your responsibility for the charge (this is why impoundment lots only allow you to pay in cash to get your car back).

The concept of 'economic or business duress' may be generally stated as follows: Where the plaintiff is forced into a transaction as a result of unlawful threats or wrongful, oppressive, or unconscionable conduct on the part of the defendant which leaves the plaintiff no reasonable alternative but to acquiesce, the plaintiff may void the transaction and recover any economic loss.

The concept of 'extortion' is defined as the obtaining of peroperty from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, fear, or udner color of official right.

[JPatrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby Please don't take this as legal advice, but you might argue as a basis for disputing the charge that the tow truck driver "forced" you to use your credit card to pay him off -- otherwise he would have "stolen" your car.* By "stolen" I mean that the tow truck driver would have (and apparently had already) exercised "dominion and control" over your property with no intention of returning it to you absent payment.* The situation could possibly be deemed one of "economic duress" or extortion, thereby absolving you of your responsibility for the charge (this is why impoundment lots only allow you to pay in cash to get your car back). The concept of 'economic or business duress' may be generally stated as follows: Where the plaintiff is forced into a transaction as a result of unlawful threats or wrongful, oppressive, or unconscionable conduct on the part of the defendant which leaves the plaintiff no reasonable alternative but to acquiesce, the plaintiff may void the transaction and recover any economic loss. The concept of 'extortion' is defined as the obtaining of peroperty from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, fear, or udner color of official right.

When you lay the above on the wrecker driver please take your video camera.* I'd love to see/hear that encounter.*

I few years ago I was on my way to work and engaged in my usual Monday morning activity of trying to figure out where I parked my car after work the previous Friday.* The on-street parking in my neighborhood was extremely tight and after several thousand days of a different spot each day, it all starts to blur together.* Anyhow, in my travels, I encountered a good-sized crowd of people making all kinds of noise and cheering away.* Odd, for 6:15am.

I crossed the street to see what all the fuss was about. The center of attention was a very large black male with a sledge hammer in hand.* He was whaling away at a Denver Boot clamped to his work van.* Every time he swung, everyone would cheer.* Not wanting to be a party pooper, I joined the celebration.* It was all good clean fun until the police arrived and spoiled everything.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPatrick When you lay the above on the wrecker driver please take your video camera.* I'd love to see/hear that encounter.*

I wasn't advising him to make the foregoing arguments to the tow truck driver, but rather to his credit card company when disputing the charges. OTOH, I like the idea of threatening the tow truck driver with a call to the police that the car being towed is "stolen" absent proof (i.e. color of authority) that he has the right to tow the car. While some might call doing so filing a false police report, I doubt any prosecutor in the land would bother with the case since "intent" (i.e. knowingly filing a false report) would be lacking.

Here's a tow truck story for you that might warm your heart. A friend of mine is a part-time deputy sheriff in rural Florida. When an overzealous tow truck driver tried to tow his car, he stood in front of the truck with both his badge and his standard-issue 9mm. He ordered the tow truck driver out of his truck and arrested him. The paperwork was a hassle, and the tow truck driver ultimately pled to a minor offense, but the story got around the tow truck community and there was a remarkable decrease in the number of unlawfully towed vehicles for a while.

[justin]

to add to what Jay said, what about false imprisonment (of you) and conversion (of your vehicle)? Plenty of torts there

[soupcxan]

Thanks for the input. I have disputed the charge and drafted a letter to the credit card company. Here is a summary of my three arguments:

1) The merchant forced me to sign the credit card slip under economic duress, and therefore the contract is invalid and unenforceable.
2) In my state, a company that operates as a towing/booting company must be licensed by the state and have adequate insurance. Based on the information I found, I do not believe the company that booted me satisfies either of these criteria. Therefore, their booting was an illegal act, and a contract related to an illegal act is invalid and unenforcable (just as if you hired an unlicensed contractor to work on your house).
3) There is a specific statute in the state law that prohibits towing/booting companies from performing constant survelliance on a parking lot in order to catch people. Given that this guy was driving around the lot looking for people to boot and then demanding money from them when they returned, I think he is in clear violation of the statute.

We'll see how it goes...hopefully the credit card agency will stick up for me...after all, I have $40k of 0% BT money with them! I must be a great customer!

[JPatrick]

Way to go soup!!
When all is said and done I hope you will provide your findings to the mall, PD, you city gov rep, county attorney, letter to the editor, and so on.
I never have seen or heard of one of those parking lot bandits that wasn't operating low and loose.

[Jay_Gatsby]

I'm glad we could help. That will be $500 for "professional services rendered".

[justin]

Just make sure Soup doesn't pay you with a CC

[soupcxan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin Just make sure Soup doesn't pay you with a CC

LOL! I am usually very responsible, and if I have actually caused economic loss to someone then I will step up and take care of it. But given that the parking lot was less than half full, and I was parked as far away from the store entrances as possible (so as not to take a desirable space away from a real customer) then I don't see how anyone has been damanged by my car being there for 2 hours. And I should also point out, I have been a patron of multiple stores in that shopping complex in the past...but they can forget about any more business from me, if they are going to condone the vandalism of my property. What really gets me is their hypocrisy...do you think they complain when someone parks at the big mall, and then walks over to their stores? Of course not! But they can't be bothered to extend the same courtesy when the situation is reversed? Give me a break.

[KB]

Soup.

You might call the local police also. This could be a scam that a lot of people are getting caught on.
They had a new article on our local news about the same thing. And the police stepped in and put a stop to it.
Good luck