Prenuptial Agreement

[bclover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Collar Guy If my son told me he was going to do a prenup with his then fiance( now wife), I would have told him he didnt really love and trust her. In reality Im sure its a wise move for many people. But in my minds eye I cant get around it as sort of hedging your bet.

Actually Blue,
I think the exact opposite especially with the "youngins". If my son told me he was going to get a prenup I would be more shocked that they even had a discussion on finances.

My oldest is 24 and he's got 2 friends who have already been married and divorce before they hit 30 and I really think because the fell into the "love conquers all" trap.

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by growing_older I had nearly nothing when I got married and she had less than nothing (debts). We discussed the idea of a prenup including splitting everything 50/50 if we ever broke up. But since we had so little, we decided against the prenup. It was a terrible mistake. The person you thought you knew well enough to marry, may not be the person you are divorcing. With a new midlife crisis and a boyfriend who was experienced in divorce law, she moved to split 90/10 or 100/0 if she could get it. Even with not much original assets to protect, enshrining the idea of a 50/50 split would have saved a lot of hassle and legal fees. If I ever re-marry, I will insist on a prenup.

The judge gave her more than 50 %?

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover Actually Blue, If my son told me he was going to get a prenup I would be more shocked that they even had a discussion on finances.

Yes very true, I still cant believe they(he) grew up, the clock stopped for me when he was about 7, I still tell him to be careful when I hand him a knife "its sharp be careful" hahaha. Its just old habits , I dont even know Im saying these things.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Collar Guy The judge gave her more than 50 %?

In a community property state, no where does it say the split up of assets or earnings are guaranteed 50/50 in a divorce settlement. Ask me how I know.

[Mdlerth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator It all depends on how much you value retirement. If you do not mind losing everything, and going back to work, no need for a prenup. For two people with nothing, a prenup will only pre-negotiate and children issues. A judge will split the money and pensions. I always wonder why people even get married, especially wen they are beyond the age of having kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97guns I've seen it too many times, "real love and trust" turn on a dime...

I keep reading this thread in stunned amazement over the large number of pessimistic views regarding love and marriage. I will take my disagreement with that pessimism to my grave.

Perhaps I am a dinosaur, but I maintain that marriage is a beautiful and miraculous state, and that love endures all things. That many marriages do not last probably says more about our limitations as human beings than it does about the institution.

I know this is a retirement forum, but surely there are concepts more important. Retirement only dates back about three generations; before the 20th century people w*rked until they died.

Marriage, OTOH, dates back as far as civilization itself. I won't be around to collect on the bet, but I'd wager that in a thousand years people will still be marrying. Whether retirement will still be around is another story. See Logan's Run.

[Amethyst]

This is a forum of pragmatists. Looked at pragmatically, there are a million potential things to go wrong with marriage, and not as many to go wrong without it. So that's probably why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth I keep reading this thread in stunned amazement over the large number of pessimistic views regarding love and marriage. .

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 In a community property state, no where does it say the split up of assets or earnings are guaranteed 50/50 in a divorce settlement. Ask me how I know.

Ugh , I think I know how, yikes. I was just curious how bad he got hammered.

[97guns]

Love and trust, amazement or not, divorce is a reality that I've firsthand witnessed too many times. Everyone is in love and in full trust when vows are spoken but things change, life is ever evolving and unpredictable

[97guns]

I have a dear friend who is extremely devoted to his religion, recently diagnosed with Narcolepsy where he falls asleep anytime with seizures. He had been married for 18 years with 3 children and his wife filed for divorce because of the disease, she showed no remorse for his sickness, when he would go into an episode she would say that he's faking it.

[Blue Collar Guy]

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Originally Posted by 97guns I have a dear friend who is extremely devoted to his religion, recently diagnosed with Narcolepsy where he falls asleep anytime with seizures. He had been married for 18 years with 3 children and his wife filed for divorce because of the disease, she showed no remorse for his sickness, when he would go into an episode she would say that he's faking it.

, This was her out. She needed an exit plan. She was on her way out already, he just didnt know it.

[socca]

Prenups aren't just about divorce. The wealthier party in a marriage may not want state laws to govern the distribution of her assets if she predeceases the poorer party.

In the two prenups I've witnessed, the poorer party came away with hurt feelings. This isn't a surprise - the months leading up to a marriage are probably all about imagining a life together, and here one party is imagining a life apart. Ouch.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth I keep reading this thread in stunned amazement over the large number of pessimistic views regarding love and marriage. I will take my disagreement with that pessimism to my grave.

Absolutely. I can see how this same principle can be applied to our other board preoccupation. Want to get rich? No problem! just pick the right stock and hold on for life. Easy peasey!

Ha

[Mdlerth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst This is a forum of pragmatists. Looked at pragmatically, there are a million potential things to go wrong with marriage, and not as many to go wrong without it. So that's probably why.

You're probably accurate, but if I only ever acted pragmatically, I'd never have any stories to tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97guns Love and trust, amazement or not, divorce is a reality that I've firsthand witnessed too many times. Everyone is in love and in full trust when vows are spoken but things change, life is ever evolving and unpredictable

I've witnessed divorces as well, and when they're amicable it still hurts. When they're bitter, it's insanely painful. Maybe that's nature's way of telling us not to enter marriage casually. Is a vow really a vow if it includes the unspoken codicil "until I change my mind"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Absolutely. I can see how this same principle can be applied to our other board preoccupation. Want to get rich? No problem! just pick the right stock and hold on for life. Easy peasey! Ha

Substitute "a low fee index fund" for "the right stock" and we do this all the time here!

Y'know, despite being clearly in the minority wrt love and marriage, I'm learning a lot about people in this thread. And despite what I've learned, I still love you all anyway!

I hope I haven't hijacked the thread too badly - it's supposed to be about prenups - so I'll return it to its original direction. Thank you all for humoring me!

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth I keep reading this thread in stunned amazement over the large number of pessimistic views regarding love and marriage. I will take my disagreement with that pessimism to my grave. Perhaps I am a dinosaur, but I maintain that marriage is a beautiful and miraculous state, and that love endures all things. That many marriages do not last probably says more about our limitations as human beings than it does about the institution. I know this is a retirement forum, but surely there are concepts more important. Retirement only dates back about three generations; before the 20th century people w*rked until they died. Marriage, OTOH, dates back as far as civilization itself. I won't be around to collect on the bet, but I'd wager that in a thousand years people will still be marrying. Whether retirement will still be around is another story. See Logan's Run.

Nicely put.

[MarieIG]

As to pre nups, it depends on the couple. Second marriages with kids from prior marriages I understand. Pre nups however should be reasonable, not DH has 500 mill, and after five kids and fifty years of marriage DH decides to trade her in for the newer model, wifey gets nada. No.

As for me, I didn't have a pre-nup, no need and didn't want one, and since I will never marry again, I never will.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarieIG As to pre nups, it depends on the couple. Second marriages with kids from prior marriages I understand. Pre nups however should be reasonable, not DH has 500 mill, and after five kids and fifty years of marriage DH decides to trade her in for the newer model, wifey gets nada. No.

My first husband, who'd inherited $300K from his mother's estate, made noises about wanting a prenup. Fine, I said- give me a draft of something reasonable and I'll have a lawyer review it. I specifically mentioned that the provisions should be different if we split after 3 years and no kids than if we split after 15 years with a couple of children. He never followed up. I think he just wanted to see what my reaction would be. In the end, about $100K went to a down payment on the house (which we sold at a nice profit when we divorced 13 years later) and the rest went for nice things for him (a new Camaro, a sound system that cost $6K in 1984) and to pay his share of expenses during the 5 years he was unemployed.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth I've witnessed divorces as well, and when they're amicable it still hurts. When they're bitter, it's insanely painful. Maybe that's nature's way of telling us not to enter marriage casually. Is a vow really a vow if it includes the unspoken codicil "until I change my mind"?

I probably learn more towards your position than the pragmatics . But, I understand the desire to try to "insurance" in place for the unknown (which is how I view a prenup).

My "pragmatic" approach to marriage was to date my future DW long enough (7 years) to see her bad side, bad habits, bad friends, reactions when things did not go her way, and decide if this was something I could deal with. Also, determining if her view on marriage matched mine - less about love and more about mutual sacrifice. It is easy to fall in lust/love with someone. It is a lot harder to put someone else's needs in front of your own in a joyful manner, with no quid pro quo. In that case I can understand the prenup desire.

As the saying goes... men marry women hoping they will never change - but they do. Women marry men hoping they will change - but they do not.