Prenuptial Agreement

[street]

I know there has been other topics on this subject but after reading the dating thread it got me thinking. I would never get married or even have a live in unless there was a binding contract of some sort.

I would also encourage the kids of wealthy parents to consider and have a prenuptial agreement before getting married.

What is your thoughts and I would imagine it wouldn't be a pleasant subject to bring up.

[flyingaway]

This is a very difficult topic. When people are in true love, financial issues are not supposed to be important. On the other hand, if getting married is not (mainly) for true love, financial arrangements are important.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingaway This is a very difficult topic. When people are in true love, financial issues are not supposed to be important. On the other hand, if getting married is not (mainly) for true love, financial arrangements are important.

Have to disagree about true love negating the importance of financial issues.. Disagreements over money are a leading cause of divorce. If you marry someone with talking about finance issues, you're a fool.

Just curious why you think people get married, especially in this day and age, if they don't love each other...BTW how is "true love" different then love unless you are the Princess Bride?

[athena53]

I'm skeptical of prenups. For one thing, I'm not sure they'd hold up if children are born into the marriage. Wealthy parents, OTOH, can structure their affairs in a trust that leaves the son-or-daughter-in-law out if the child predeceases them. If the parents die first it can also protect the parents' estate from the Ex if the child divorces. I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of how my own trust works. Since DS and DDIL are devout evangelical Christians who included "I will never divorce you" in their marriage vows and they appear to have a very strong marriage, I'm not too concerned.

My widowed grandfather had a pre-nup with his second wife (he had significant savings, she had nothing) but when my mother took over his finances she told me that they'd been sending $300/month to one of the step-grandma's adult daughters, and that every time one of Grandpa's CDs came up for renewal it was put into her name. He still had all his marbles and could do what he wanted, but so much for the pre-nup.

I got lucky with late DH- of course, we dated for 6 years before marriage. I had decent savings and he had very little other than substantial equity in his house, but it was clear that he was a LBYM guy and he had zero credit card debt. I never saw a need for a prenup. If the marriage had soured, I would have made sure he wasn't cast adrift with nothing- he was 65 when we married, and that would have been cruel.

I'm just not going to remarry unless the guy is at least as loaded as I am, and maybe not then, either.

[Senator]

Why get married at all, especially if you do not want children? It is an outdated concept and almost never as financially beneficial as living together. Even having children within a marriage is very seldom the case with first born these days.

One can live as low-income and get many financial benefits, such as ACA insurance or other health benefits. The other can pay for most things. You can sell property to each other and protect any capital gains. You can be two separate entities on taxes. One may even qualify for housing assistance and EITC.

If you view getting married as a religious ting, remember no religion requires a license to do anything.

[flyingaway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Have to disagree about true love negating the importance of financial issues.. Disagreements over money are a leading cause of divorce. If you marry someone with talking about finance issues, you're a fool. Just curious why you think people get married, especially in this day and age, if they don't love each other...BTW how is "true love" different then love unless you are the Princess Bride?

There are many cases in which people get married not primarily for true love, especially one part is wealthy.

I think the true love can be found when people are young and are romantic. When you bring a lot of things into marriage, it is more like a life arrangement. Nothing wrong with that.

[Bamaman]

My family room took in my wife and treated her as their own daughter.

But a somewhat well to do family still has to be skeptical about sons and daughters in law in this high divorce world. Without a prenup, they can affect a whole family financially and personally for years and years.

My niece got a divorce 10 years ago and her husband was a control freak. It has taken this long for my niece to gain the strength and maturity to stand up to him.

[bclover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Have to disagree about true love negating the importance of financial issues.. Disagreements over money are a leading cause of divorce. If you marry someone with talking about finance issues, you're a fool. Just curious why you think people get married, especially in this day and age, if they don't love each other...BTW how is "true love" different then love unless you are the Princess Bride?

lol, maybe say a bit foolish.

So I was married 30 years before the old guy lost his battle with cancer. I can tell you here and now, money didn't even come up in any conversation until after the conversation. And personally I think people use money as an excuse for getting divorce when they really are other reasons. I loved my husband beyond measure, I can't imagine getting divorce because he was bad with money. that's just me but I had a fabulous extraordinary marriage.

Now that could have been because we were both flat broke. lol What can I say, we met in college and our main goal was living la vida loca.

Now i will also say things were a bit different. no one back in the 70's that I can remember stressed about how to pay for retirement when they were 18.

I attended a bar Mitzvah a few weeks back where they wanted guest to contribute to the kids retirement account. Seriously.

Now for me there will definitely be a prenup but I'm in my late 50's so if I got remarried love is only one part of the equation..

As for a wealthy parents go, I'll quote Heathcliff Huxtable in an episode of the cosby show when one of the kids was saying they wish they weren't so rich.

Cliff: "you keep using the word we... me and your mother are rich, you-you have nothing, you can tell your friends and your enemies that".

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator One can live as low-income and get many financial benefits, such as ACA insurance or other health benefits. The other can pay for most things. You can sell property to each other and protect any capital gains. You can be two separate entities on taxes. One may even qualify for housing assistance and EITC.

Even though all of the above is legal, I'd consider some of it to be a bot shady. I just don't want to foot the bill for LTC for a husband who didn't bring enough resources into the marriage to fund it himself. OK, maybe that's shady since my implication is that without marriage, Medicaid would pick up the tab. I would also be concerned about being held liable for any medical/dental expenses not covered by insurance.

As for religion- I'd have to deal with my devout Christian son, for whom fornication is a giant "Thou Shalt Not". I can handle that.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover lol, maybe say a bit foolish. So I was married 30 years before the old guy lost his battle with cancer. I can tell you here and now, money didn't even come up in any conversation until after the conversation. And personally I think people use money as an excuse for getting divorce when they really are other reasons. I loved my husband beyond measure, I can't imagine getting divorce because he was bad with money. that's just me but I had a fabulous extraordinary marriage. Now that could have been because we were both flat broke. lol What can I say, we met in college and our main goal was living la vida loca. Now i will also say things were a bit different. no one back in the 70's that I can remember stressed about how to pay for retirement when they were 18. I attended a bar Mitzvah a few weeks back where they wanted guest to contribute to the kids retirement account. Seriously. Now for me there will definitely be a prenup but I'm in my late 50's so if I got remarried love is only one part of the equation.. As for a wealthy parents go, I'll quote Heathcliff Huxtable in an episode of the cosby show when one of the kids was saying they wish they weren't so rich. Cliff: "you keep using the word we... me and your mother are rich, you-you have nothing, you can tell your friends and your enemies that".

Yes well if you have nothing then you don't need a pre-nup. I was the same way, married the guy when I was 18 and had nothing and I was naïve, what 18 year old isn't naïve.. Still together after 45 years but I attribute that to dumb luck or divine intervention whichever you believe in. Most posters here are a little older and been thru the school of hard knocks and it would be foolish to marry without financial compatibility.

[SheitlQueen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by street I know there has been other topics on this subject but after reading the dating thread it got me thinking. I would never get married or even have a live in unless there was a binding contract of some sort. I would also encourage the kids of wealthy parents to consider and have a prenuptial agreement before getting married. What is your thoughts and I would imagine it wouldn't be a pleasant subject to bring up.

They don't always hold up. I have a friend who got divorced that had a prenup. Before they married, the wife took it to her attorney who said it was reasonable and to sign it, which she did. During the divorce, the wife challenged it and it was set aside and voided by the court because the judge felt it wasn't "fair" to her.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Why get married at all, especially if you do not want children? It is an outdated concept and almost never as financially beneficial as living together. Even having children within a marriage is very seldom the case with first born these days. One can live as low-income and get many financial benefits, such as ACA insurance or other health benefits. The other can pay for most things. You can sell property to each other and protect any capital gains. You can be two separate entities on taxes. One may even qualify for housing assistance and EITC. If you view getting married as a religious ting, remember no religion requires a license to do anything.

I love it when people say 'it is just a piece of paper' or like you say, and outdated concept...


For many, that is not the case... and as I have said to a few women who had not gotten married because BF has used that line... I told them to ask 'if it is just a piece of paper, then it means nothing to you but it means a lot to me so we should get married' and see how important it becomes to him....

Now, if both people think the same, great.... but as long as one disagrees then it is a problem...

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Why get married at all, especially if you do not want children?

because it shows commitment?

[gayl]

Son's father-in-law convinced his daughter to get a prenup. My son was never much of one to talk or brag or anything like that. However he did own his condo in the San Francisco Bay Area out right and had been fully funding his Roth. So she got a prenup to protect her $25,000 stating it would protect both of them and what they had. prospective father-in-law is just plain dumb

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gayl Son's father-in-law convinced his daughter to get a prenup. My son was never much of one to talk or brag or anything like that. However he did own his condo in the San Francisco Bay Area out right and had been fully funding his Roth. So she got a prenup to protect her $25,000 stating it would protect both of them and what they had. prospective father-in-law is just plain dumb

That depends on how the prenup is written especially if it includes the disposition of wealth garnered post-marriage. If the FIL suggested the prenup to protect only the $25k, then, yes, he was dumb. But there is likely more to it. Perhaps it also protects an inheritance he feels she'll receive from him or a gift he plans when he sells a business or ??

[gayl]

He retired on pension but I guess that could make sense. Although can't inheritances be kept as separate property by simply never mingling it into the family's assets? I don't know this stuff as well as some of the others do, but I always thought that was the case.

Son doesn't brag as much as FIL. He just smiles and fully vests into his wife's Roth each year .... smart kid

[Pilot2013]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Why get married at all, especially if you do not want children? It is an outdated concept and almost never as financially beneficial as living together. Even having children within a marriage is very seldom the case with first born these days. One can live as low-income and get many financial benefits, such as ACA insurance or other health benefits. The other can pay for most things. You can sell property to each other and protect any capital gains. You can be two separate entities on taxes. One may even qualify for housing assistance and EITC. If you view getting married as a religious ting, remember no religion requires a license to do anything.

Other than the moral stuff, depending on where you live, this won't help. Once you cohabitat for a period of time, he/she can take half anyway...

[97guns]

I had a prenup drawn up when I married, I just worked too hard to get where I'm at, I had It drawn up that if there is separation she will get 1 of my properties

[GravitySucks]

Great thing about being dirt poor when we married, no lawyers needed.
I'm keeping the 12 year old $75 Ford, you can keep your childhood bedroom set.

[Blue Collar Guy]

Yeah, this is a touchy subject for first time young marriages.