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Old 04-06-2008, 11:48 AM   #21
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Maybe if the government would practice LBYM, then it would not have to worry about the debt problem the author keeps referring to.
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Old 04-06-2008, 12:20 PM   #22
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yeah, we can all agree the feds will spend 110% of what they tax ... sooo the sooner we shut off the spicket, the sooner they learn to live with thier means.
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Old 04-06-2008, 03:00 PM   #23
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"For everyone's good, Americans should at least be able to work as long as their shorter-lived, poorer grandparents did. By doing so, they would be unselfishly helping preserve and strengthen our nation's future by alleviating - rather than worsening - our national debt and making hands-on contributions to our children and communities."

Wow, I was completely oblivious that I was selfish for living within my means, paying my bills in full and on time, and in general making the credit industry look elsewhere for their profits.

My mother once said something about wanting to leave an inheritance. All three of us (adult children) had the same thing to say - "Spend it, Mom. Lord knows you paid your dues." None of us owns a Mercedes but none are on food stamps either.

I'll leave the "patriotism" to one BIL who is working much longer than he wants to at a job he hates, but he's got the home theater system, the whirlpool tub in the master bathroom, and assorted other toys.

And as Goonie pointed out, when I retired somebody else got a job.
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Old 04-06-2008, 04:09 PM   #24
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First of all, where does our esteemed Prof get the statistic that "75% of 62 year olds start taking Social Security?" The highest figure I've seen is 50%.

Secondly, would people continue to enjoy good health if they had to work in their sixties and seventies? The stress I tolerated somewhat easily in my forties became intolerable by my early fifties.

Then this brilliance:

And given our nation's crying need for teachers, social service workers and public servants, millions of "seasoned citizens" could serve our communities while giving meaning and money to people with decades of life and activity left in them.

Having retired from a social service career, I can attest to there being a limited number of opportunities. (I've been looking to see if there was any meaningful volunteer work and there doesn't seem to be.) And yes, teachers are needed in some subject areas, like math, science, and Special Ed---but not in history or English. And trust me, the small salaries that most people earn in social services doesn't provide them with very much money!

Then this:

For individuals, working longer can mean more income and savings and something to bequeath to one's children.

This is contradictory. If it's so great for indviduals and society to work until/through old age, why would people's kids need their parents money? Then wouldn't it follow that they would be working into their eighties and nineties and beyond if their life span will be even longer than their parents?

And you notice that our Prof didn't address age discrimination in finding/keeping employment as a midle aged or older person?

I totally agree with what this person said in response to the article:

Our national debt was caused by the government spending more than it brings in in taxes, not lack of labor. Americans work far more now than they ever have. Those people who have actually had the discipline to save enough money to retire early should be our role-models, not public enemies.

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Old 04-06-2008, 04:32 PM   #25
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Prof says ER is selfish, unpatriotic

I call bullsh!t! Those that ER are unselfish and patriotic. During this time when unemployment is on the rise, those that ER are opening opportunities for advancement for others. Those that are advancing are creating new job openings. Those ERing could be slowing down the rise of unemployment. Let us wave the flag for the patriotic and unselfish ERers!
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Old 04-06-2008, 04:33 PM   #26
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I understand that ER is not for everyone, and that in fact it can be downright foreign for a lot of people.

Is retiring early selfish? Well most people retire early (before the full retirement age of 65-67 that is) because of reasons beyond their control. Sometimes it's because they are sick and can't work any longer, sometimes it's because they got laid off and can't find another decent paying job. So it doesn't make any sense to label all "early" retirees as selfish individuals. People like me who plan on retiring in their forties? Well I could see how most people could think it's selfish, but I just don't care.

As far as I am concerned, people like early retirees who accumulated significant assets are also the ones who will end up bailing out the rest of the populace, so I can't see how it is unpatriotic. If you left it to "commoners" they would sell this country to China in a heartbeat in exchange for some spending money. At least people seeking ER invest their money in American companies, hence creating more jobs for those of us who need to work.
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Old 04-06-2008, 04:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packrat44 View Post
Prof says ER is selfish, unpatriotic

I call bullsh!t! Those that ER are unselfish and patriotic. During this time when unemployment is on the rise, those that ER are opening opportunities for advancement for others. Those that are advancing are creating new job openings. Those ERing could be slowing down the rise of unemployment. Let us wave the flag for the patriotic and unselfish ERers!
I retired on an early buyout so someone else could keep a job.
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:25 PM   #28
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I sent the guy the following email
Quote:
Aloha Professsor Yarrow
I read with some interest your recent article in the Baltimore Sun on early retirees. I am active member of an early retirement forum http://www.early-retirement.org . Not surprisingly the majority of the comments both on the Forum and on the Sun’s website disagreed with your editorial. Rather than engage in a email discussion. I’d like to invite you to participate on the forum on this thread, http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/prof-says-er-selfish-unpatriotic-34623.html. The forum members are pretty respectful of differences of opinion, although one does need to be able to back up ones opinions with logic and data. In fact, one of the members started a thread on the proposition that early retirement (ER) was selfish last Dec. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/proposition-early-retirement-selfish-31851.html.
I hope he responds
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:00 PM   #29
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Looks like bait to me.


ANDREW L. YARROW: Is early retirement selfish? | Encore: Work That Matters in the Second Half of Life


"Patriotic" is a loaded world -- intentionally so

Submitted by Ruth Wooden on April 4, 2008 - 11:32am.
I love the controversy that I knew would happen with the use of “patriotic.” It’s one of those words — ask Obama about the flag pin.
The whole point of the piece was to make it clear that the retirement of so many people at once has consequences that may not be clear…consequences not just to the individual but to a larger issue. It focuses the brain on Retirement (and how one is going to “live” it) which is a good thing for Encore in my opinion.
—Ruth Wooden
(Editor’s note: Ruth Wooden, president of Public Agenda, chairs Civic Ventures’ board of directors.)
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:05 PM   #30
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I don't like him or his horse.
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:42 PM   #31
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I don't like him or his horse.

You go girlfriend! I was waiting for your post--I just knew you were going to blast him!
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Old 04-06-2008, 08:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tangomonster View Post
First of all, where does our esteemed Prof get the statistic that "75% of 62 year olds start taking Social Security?" The highest figure I've seen is 50%.
I linked to an AARP study in one of the brazillion social security threads. Its a lot closer to 75% than 50%.
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:43 PM   #33
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I retired on an early buyout so someone else could keep a job.
I took a buyout too. And in my case, they hired 2 people when I ER'd!
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:23 PM   #34
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A couple of issues that I see with the prof's position:
- The life expectancy of a person that has reached age 65 is 18.7 years, according to this table http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus06.pdf#027. Given the graduated SS payout for collecting later, the average person will collect much more total money from SS by starting at age 67 than at age 62. One could argue that if you work longer, you are also contributing longer to the SS kitty. However, if you retire early, there is 4.8% of the workforce that is willing to fill your position and make those contributions.
- If I achieve my goal of retiring early (in my 50's), I am not any kind of burden on society. I cannot draw from SS or get MediCare for quite a few years. I would still be consuming and paying my RE taxes and sales taxes, when applicable.
- In fact, I could argue that I would be helping the economy more by starting my retirement early. All the assets that I have been accumulating in my tax deferred accounts have gone untouched by the "public good." Once we start drawing down our tax-deferred accounts, "our nation" will finally be able to get its hands on that money that has been growing out there.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:34 PM   #35
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And in my case, they hired 2 people when I ER'd!
Translation: They don't make Goonies like they used to...
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:06 PM   #36
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Are you truly patriotic only if you work until they carry you out of your office feet first?
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:07 PM   #37
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Let's see.... it is MY problem that the government has been spending LOTS of money on stuff I don't want or need... but now that it comes my time (well, not yet... I still have many years before it is MY time ) to collect... now I am unpatriotic...

I was talking to my BIL today and asked him about his job.... he is getting close to 60 and said he could not easily get another job at his age... and his job has been eliminated at least 3 times with most being moved to India (he keeps finding something else in the company, but not everybody does... )...

SO, he will work another 3 or so years when he qualifies for full pension... why should he go to another job that pays a lot less I just don't get it...
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:10 PM   #38
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Professor Yarrow emailed me and said he'd respond in the next couple of days. So lets avoid burning him in effigy until he has a chance of to respond. Or at the very least make some substantive criticisms.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:24 PM   #39
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Good work clifp, this should be interesting.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:41 PM   #40
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Professor Yarrow emailed me and said he'd respond in the next couple of days. So lets avoid burning him in effigy until he has a chance of to respond. Or at the very least make some substantive criticisms.
Nice looking place Effigy Mounds National Monument - Areaparks.com.
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