Prof says ER is selfish, unpatriotic

I understand that ER is not for everyone, and that in fact it can be downright foreign for a lot of people.

Is retiring early selfish? Well most people retire early (before the full retirement age of 65-67 that is) because of reasons beyond their control. Sometimes it's because they are sick and can't work any longer, sometimes it's because they got laid off and can't find another decent paying job. So it doesn't make any sense to label all "early" retirees as selfish individuals. People like me who plan on retiring in their forties? Well I could see how most people could think it's selfish, but I just don't care.

As far as I am concerned, people like early retirees who accumulated significant assets are also the ones who will end up bailing out the rest of the populace, so I can't see how it is unpatriotic. If you left it to "commoners" they would sell this country to China in a heartbeat in exchange for some spending money. At least people seeking ER invest their money in American companies, hence creating more jobs for those of us who need to work.
 
packrat44 said:
Prof says ER is selfish, unpatriotic

I call bullsh!t! Those that ER are unselfish and patriotic. During this time when unemployment is on the rise, those that ER are opening opportunities for advancement for others. Those that are advancing are creating new job openings. Those ERing could be slowing down the rise of unemployment. Let us wave the flag for the patriotic and unselfish ERers!
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I retired on an early buyout so someone else could keep a job.
 
I sent the guy the following email
Aloha Professsor Yarrow
I read with some interest your recent article in the Baltimore Sun on early retirees. I am active member of an early retirement forum http://www.early-retirement.org . Not surprisingly the majority of the comments both on the Forum and on the Sun’s website disagreed with your editorial. Rather than engage in a email discussion. I’d like to invite you to participate on the forum on this thread, http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/prof-says-er-selfish-unpatriotic-34623.html. The forum members are pretty respectful of differences of opinion, although one does need to be able to back up ones opinions with logic and data. In fact, one of the members started a thread on the proposition that early retirement (ER) was selfish last Dec. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/proposition-early-retirement-selfish-31851.html.
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I hope he responds
 
Looks like bait to me.


ANDREW L. YARROW: Is early retirement selfish? | Encore: Work That Matters in the Second Half of Life


"Patriotic" is a loaded world -- intentionally so

Submitted by Ruth Wooden on April 4, 2008 - 11:32am.
I love the controversy that I knew would happen with the use of “patriotic.” It’s one of those words — ask Obama about the flag pin.
The whole point of the piece was to make it clear that the retirement of so many people at once has consequences that may not be clear…consequences not just to the individual but to a larger issue. It focuses the brain on Retirement (and how one is going to “live” it) which is a good thing for Encore in my opinion.
—Ruth Wooden
(Editor’s note: Ruth Wooden, president of Public Agenda, chairs Civic Ventures’ board of directors.)
 
tangomonster said:
First of all, where does our esteemed Prof get the statistic that "75% of 62 year olds start taking Social Security?" The highest figure I've seen is 50%.
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I linked to an AARP study in one of the brazillion social security threads. Its a lot closer to 75% than 50%.
 
A couple of issues that I see with the prof's position:
- The life expectancy of a person that has reached age 65 is 18.7 years, according to this table http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus06.pdf#027. Given the graduated SS payout for collecting later, the average person will collect much more total money from SS by starting at age 67 than at age 62. One could argue that if you work longer, you are also contributing longer to the SS kitty. However, if you retire early, there is 4.8% of the workforce that is willing to fill your position and make those contributions.
- If I achieve my goal of retiring early (in my 50's), I am not any kind of burden on society. I cannot draw from SS or get MediCare for quite a few years. I would still be consuming and paying my RE taxes and sales taxes, when applicable.
- In fact, I could argue that I would be helping the economy more by starting my retirement early. All the assets that I have been accumulating in my tax deferred accounts have gone untouched by the "public good." Once we start drawing down our tax-deferred accounts, "our nation" will finally be able to get its hands on that money that has been growing out there.
 
Are you truly patriotic only if you work until they carry you out of your office feet first?
 
Let's see.... it is MY problem that the government has been spending LOTS of money on stuff I don't want or need... but now that it comes my time (well, not yet... I still have many years before it is MY time :() to collect... now I am unpatriotic...

I was talking to my BIL today and asked him about his job.... he is getting close to 60 and said he could not easily get another job at his age... and his job has been eliminated at least 3 times with most being moved to India (he keeps finding something else in the company, but not everybody does... )...

SO, he will work another 3 or so years when he qualifies for full pension... why should he go to another job that pays a lot less:confused: I just don't get it...
 
Professor Yarrow emailed me and said he'd respond in the next couple of days. So lets avoid burning him in effigy until he has a chance of to respond. Or at the very least make some substantive criticisms.
 
clifp said:
Professor Yarrow emailed me and said he'd respond in the next couple of days. So lets avoid burning him in effigy until he has a chance of to respond. Or at the very least make some substantive criticisms.
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OK, I'll wait until then.

These people live in a world of their own and don't like to be told they are wrong, so if he catches wind that we do not agree with what he says, he probably won't want to face that criticism. It's easier just to write articles from your college office than to put yourself in the real world.

But maybe I'm wrong, so I'll be reasonable and wait a few days to see if there is any response that will change my mind.
 
clifp said:
Professor Yarrow emailed me and said he'd respond in the next couple of days. So lets avoid burning him in effigy until he has a chance of to respond. Or at the very least make some substantive criticisms.
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His article is a response. It was the purpose of writing it, to respond with his [-]retarded[/-] [-]uninformed[/-] [-]unrealistic[/-] [-]I'm-smarter-than-you-so-I'll-tell-you-how-to-live[/-] somewhat controversial opinion on people who retire [-]before they die at their desk[/-] early. He's already spelled out what he has to say, in detail.

However, if Americans retired later, either staying in their current jobs or taking up "encore careers" - what Marc Freedman of Civic Ventures calls do-good, later-life jobs - we could significantly slow the growth of our multitrillion-dollar national debt, which is largely driven by rising Medicare and Social Security costs (as yesterday's Social Security trustees' report makes abundantly clear). We also could keep more people in a labor force that would no longer be growing appreciably if not for immigrants.

Significantly slow the growth of our multitrillion-dollar national debt...blah blah blah most caused by paying for old people. Really? All right. There's a question buried in there, let's see if we can find it. A multitrillion-dollar national debt is beyond any number that people can easily wrap their minds around. We're getting into sums that are analogous to the number of planets, atoms, and other things people grow beards to study. The number of people in America who are at the age to retire (for the sake of arguement here we'll say 55+, the earliest age in the article mentioned of people who are not multimillionaires living in Silicon Valley) is a small percentage of the whole. The number of people of an age to retire and can afford to retire is even smaller. The number of people who are of an age to retire, can afford to retire, yet would still be healthy enough to willingly continue working for another 7-17 years is what? Itsy bitsy, at best. That's like holding my index finger and thumb that far apart, for you visual learners out there.

And you want to significantly reduce a multitrillion-dollar debt that way, do you? Do you think the taxes collected would even cover the over $12 billion that went to the Navy's aviation fund? That's a lot of money you could save in one area to spend on health care. You have to overcome the amount being spent before you can put a dent into what's already owed. Or do we just want to feel better about seeing a smaller number that the nation's in debt for instead of actually getting rid of the debt? Because if we want to keep providing unrealistic answers to solve a problem, you keep up the articles and I'll see about selling some oceanfront property in Arizona to those 40 year-old millionaires in Silicon Valley who want to retire early. Imagine the taxes they could levy on that?!
 
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RetiredGypsy said:
His article is a response. It was the purpose of writing it, to respond with his [-]retarded[/-] [-]uninformed[/-] [-]greedy[/-] [-]selfish[/-] [-]I'm-smarter-than-you-so-I'll-tell-you-how-to-live[/-] somewhat controversial opinion on people who retire [-]before they die at their desk[/-] early. He's already spelled out what he has to say, and any response is just going to further establish what he's already written.
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Thanks for keeping an open mind:bat:
 
clifp said:
Thanks for keeping an open mind:bat:
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My great uncle served in Vietnam as a radioman. He's about to retire in his late 50's.
My grandfather on my dad's side served in the Navy for some time. He retired in his 50's.
My grandfather on my mother's side served in the Air Force for some time, he retired in his late 50's.
My father's about to retire from 30 years in the Navy. He'll be in his late 40's.
I'm in the Navy and plan on taking periods of retirement here and there, and still retiring much earlier than 65.

The man wants to call three generations of my family unpatriotic, especially after volunteering significant periods of their lives to serve their country, and I'm supposed to sit here and smile and nod politely over it in case I offend?
 
No sir you are not, and I sincerely thank you and your family's service....

In fact, I hope the professor addresses your family's "selfish" retirement first.

I'll remove my foot from my mouth now.
 
I suspect that the vast majority will not be able to retire before 62... and many will not be able to retire until full SS retirement 66.x.

Too much debt, too little preparation, and a preference for spending money.

Working longer will not solve the basic SS and Medicare short-fall. People are living longer and will reach a point in time when they cannot work.
 
REWahoo said:
Translation: They don't make Goonies like they used to... ;)
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The only thing I could figure, was they had to hire 2 people to attempt to determine what I did to stay soooo busy for 8 hours a day! :D

chinaco said:
I suspect that the vast majority will not be able to retire before 62... and many will not be able to retire until full SS retirement 66.x.

Too much debt, too little preparation, and a preference for spending money.
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I have two sibling who have "Too much debt, too little preparation, and a preference for spending money", and neither plan on retiring before their full SS retirement age. In fact both plan on needing to work beyond full SS age! It's a sad (but true) fact of life for some......thank God I don't meet those qualifications! :rolleyes:
 
it's too late for me - I already demonstrate my selfishness and unpatriotism every time I take a tax deduction.....
 
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