Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: How would you vote on Prop 19 if you lived in CA?
Yes 45 86.54%
No 7 13.46%
None of the above 0 0%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Prop 19 Poll
Old 10-21-2010, 09:42 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,444
Prop 19 Poll

So, based on the thread about this I thought a poll would be interesting. Based on Prop 19 in CA as it is written rght now if you could vote on it would you vote yes or no? Since it requires 50% +1 I'll include a NOTA option. Have at it.
__________________

__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-21-2010, 11:03 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
kyounge1956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
So, based on the thread about this I thought a poll would be interesting. Based on Prop 19 in CA as it is written rght now if you could vote on it would you vote yes or no? Since it requires 50% +1 I'll include a NOTA option. Have at it.
How about a link to the text of Prop 19? Not that I'm gonna read it. There's so much stuff on the ballot up here in WA it took two voter's pamphlets to fit it all in, and I've got to figure all of that out before I think about how I'd vote in other states' elections.

But some other folks might want to see it before voting in the poll. It's the marijuana one, right?
__________________

__________________
kyounge1956 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 07:30 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,444
Sorry, I'm so familiar with it I assumed others were too. Especially with the comments on the other thread.

Here's the proposition - Proposition 19: The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010 | yeson19.com

Here's a pro view - yeson19.com

Here's a con view - No On Proposition 19
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 07:47 AM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Hey it passed 6 to 3. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
The con position is ???
Old 10-22-2010, 08:42 AM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
The con position is ???

I thought when your high, you drive really slow, it just seems like your flying - so accidents would be less serious
__________________
I don't mind coming to w**k,
but that eight hour wait to go home is just bulls**t!
F-One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 10:07 AM   #6
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyounge1956 View Post
How about a link to the text of Prop 19? Not that I'm gonna read it. There's so much stuff on the ballot up here in WA it took two voter's pamphlets to fit it all in, and I've got to figure all of that out before I think about how I'd vote in other states' elections.
Agreed. I'd support such a thing if it were done properly, but there are details that might torpedo my support (means of taxation, revenue production and regulation of sale and production, for example, or lack of local control options). Not sure what this specific measure does about those things other than that I did see that sales to people under 21 would still be illegal.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 10:21 AM   #7
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
I don't know how I'd vote on Prop 19 if I lived in California, because I haven't lived in California for over a quarter century. I think it is up to Californians.

Here in New Orleans, where the police don't even have the manpower to keep up with murders and other violent crimes, it really would make very little difference whether or not they could (theoretically) arrest people for pot. I guess it may help them as a temporary pretext to get a violent offender off the streets, while they are gathering other evidence. I can't imagine them ever having the time to bother with it otherwise. So, I'd probably vote to leave the laws in place.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 10:40 AM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
BTravlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 994
I only wish I had the opportunity to vote on such a proposition. And, no, I'm not moving to California. Yes vote here.
__________________
Wherever you go, there you are.
(In other words, no whining!)
BTravlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 10:47 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,537
I would love to break Mexico's stranglehold on the weed business! Anything that would quit funding the Mexican Cartels terrorizing everyone just south of the border. Things are so out of control over there.

Audrey
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 04:48 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,244
The concept of regulating and taxing (by Calif.) is probably a non-starter. The Feds will pounce on the first 8 guys who try to "do the right thing" and then all will go back underground again. I agree the Feds don't have the manpower to stop "illegal" growing/sales/use but they sure do have the manpower to stop "legal" growing/sales/use by anyone dumb enough to try to follow the Calif. law. For now, Calif. will save so much money on enforcement it will be BETTER than a tax. (Don't get greedy just yet, you guys in Calif.)

Eventually, if that works for Calif., the Feds may come around and THEN we can tax the stuff. Nobody does taxes better than the Feds!

I think the idea of decriminalization might be a better approach. No, it isn't "legal" (as in here is what you have to do to "transact" a pot sale) but it isn't illegal either (we will no longer break down doors of folks who have the glow of a grow light in their window). Sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. If you have a joint on you when searched for (what, a traffic violation?) we won't arrest you any more than we will if you have a nail clipper in your pocket. It's not so much "legal" as it's not "illegal".

BTW IIRC, alcohol abuse and all it's kindred problems were WORSE during prohibition than afterwards. Don't have the source to back that up. Think I saw that on the series (MTV?) now on History CH - Kathleen Turner narrator. Also, IIRC, a main issue with prohibitions is that once a significant proportion of the population becomes "law breakers" as in the case of pot use, lawlessness becomes more tolerated in all areas. Mayor Giuliani "cleaned up" NYC NOT by going after organized crime but but enforcing graffiti, littering, panhandling laws, etc. Previously it was "tolerated" and the city became apathetic to the point of being near unlivable. In the Prop 19 case, you take away the illegality and folks can once again trust their police force to enforce "real" crime. Not the "crimes" that 1/3 of the population commit daily or weekly.

I'm pretty much rabidly anti intoxicant abuse (legal or otherwise) for myself/family but I'm too libertarian to suggest what's good for everyone else as long as my safety isn't seriously compromised. Right now, my safety is probably much more compromised by the issues associated with drug prohibitions (e.g., robbery, theft, etc. to pay for Meth, etc. or stay bullets for that matter) than someone using an illegal substance and crossing the center line.

Now climbing down from my soap box, and oh yes, YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 06:53 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
I think the idea of decriminalization might be a better approach. No, it isn't "legal" (as in here is what you have to do to "transact" a pot sale) but it isn't illegal either (we will no longer break down doors of folks who have the glow of a grow light in their window). Sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. If you have a joint on you when searched for (what, a traffic violation?) we won't arrest you any more than we will if you have a nail clipper in your pocket. It's not so much "legal" as it's not "illegal".
Just read a really good article on this very issue, showing why decrim won't help certain aspects, especially the racial disparity issue. The demon weed is already decriminalized in CA (as of a couple of weeks ago). Better than nothing, but only a little.

New Study Highlights Dramatic Racial Disparities in California Pot Arrests - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2010, 08:22 AM   #12
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
I would love to break Mexico's stranglehold on the weed business! Anything that would quit funding the Mexican Cartels terrorizing everyone just south of the border. Things are so out of control over there.

Audrey
Is this falling over to your side of the border?
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2010, 09:15 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Is this falling over to your side of the border?
No, not really - although there are plenty of drug smuggling busts and a few exciting chases - the type of thing that has been going on for a long time. Something newer though - are also lots of busts of attempts to smuggle huge weapon caches south. The US export to Mexico - guns. Import drugs, export guns - perfect!

On the north side of the border we have a lot of law/border enforcement on constant patrol - although IMO we could use more as it seems like things are just barely contained even though border patrol is much more visible than just a few years ago.

On the south side - they have almost nothing except the Mexican federal army. All the local law enforcement has been co-opted, politicians threatened, kidnapped or murdered frequently. Constant kidnappings for ransom. Lots of terrorist acts to intimidate everyone. Civilians have no one trustworthy to turn to.

Recently, an inter-cartel war broke out big time in Reynosa, the city with tons of factories and the source of lots of economic well-being for McAllen, the sister city. People stay inside after dark. The factories shut down during the gun battles. It seems like no-one can get this stuff to stop over there. Wealthier Mexicans are moving north of the border as fast as they can and McAllen is seeing a temporary boom from this, but if Reynosa becomes a ghost town due to the violence, a big economic driver for McAllen disappears. In Just One Year, A Mexican City Turns Violent : NPR

You really wonder how long this can go on. Can the cartels just wipe each other out? Unfortunately the civilian casualties are high in such a scenario.

Audrey
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2010, 10:05 AM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
BTravlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 994
It can go on for a long time when there is a large supply of poor people with relatively little opportunity to better themselves. Our appetite for illegal drugs provides an attractive pile of cash for those less fortunate wanting to get their piece of the pie.
__________________
Wherever you go, there you are.
(In other words, no whining!)
BTravlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2010, 10:16 AM   #15
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
No, not really - although there are plenty of drug smuggling busts and a few exciting chases - the type of thing that has been going on for a long time. Something newer though - are also lots of busts of attempts to smuggle huge weapon caches south. The US export to Mexico - guns. Import drugs, export guns - perfect!

On the north side of the border we have a lot of law/border enforcement on constant patrol - although IMO we could use more as it seems like things are just barely contained even though border patrol is much more visible than just a few years ago.
I generally favor State policy over Federal, but this is one area where we are in dire need of one policy. I think leaving border matters to the states is the worst kind of Federal political evasion of responsibility.

How is the cost of law enforcement affecting local taxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
On the south side - they have almost nothing except the Mexican federal army. All the local law enforcement has been co-opted, politicians threatened, kidnapped or murdered frequently. Constant kidnappings for ransom. Lots of terrorist acts to intimidate everyone. Civilians have no one trustworthy to turn to.

Recently, an inter-cartel war broke out big time in Reynosa, the city with tons of factories and the source of lots of economic well-being for McAllen, the sister city. People stay inside after dark. The factories shut down during the gun battles. It seems like no-one can get this stuff to stop over there. Wealthier Mexicans are moving north of the border as fast as they can and McAllen is seeing a temporary boom from this, but if Reynosa becomes a ghost town due to the violence, a big economic driver for McAllen disappears. In Just One Year, A Mexican City Turns Violent : NPR

You really wonder how long this can go on. Can the cartels just wipe each other out? Unfortunately the civilian casualties are high in such a scenario.
Well, in other Latin American countries Peru, Colombia, Chile, it went on for decades. Colombia it is much improved but still very shaky. And when both sides stand to gain (Import drugs, export guns - perfect!) it can go on for a very long time.

One common element in the three countries named above - the beginning of the journey to reform was marked by elections that included (and were sometimes dominated by) a clear message from the middle class that such violence and oppression was no longer acceptable. Not yet the case in Mexico but clearly a growing sentiment.

Getting back to the thread, I don't think prop 19 is going to help.
__________________

__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: Is this you? wabmester FIRE and Money 20 06-13-2006 07:20 AM
Another poll... HFWR Other topics 28 08-01-2005 01:59 AM
Prop 13 - California riverrat Other topics 0 08-09-2004 01:10 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:53 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.