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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-05-2005, 02:22 PM   #21
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Just be aware that SPH has relatively little exposure to propane prices. They pretty much just do a pass-through of propane prices to their cutomers, kind of like a pipeline. I own SPH and think its a good company, just understand what you are getting. It is also worth waiting for the meaningless dips that happen a couple times a year.
Today was an unclemick day. Didn't do anything all. Fooled with my putz stocks. SPH finally dipped some....pulled the trigger @ 34.20 we'll see...

heh, heh
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-05-2005, 03:53 PM   #22
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Re: Propane Prices

Just filled up the tank @ $1.729. Provider near Bremerton, WA.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 01:06 PM   #23
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Re: Propane Prices

Avoid electirc resistance heating. $$$$$$$$$

I love natural gas. If not available, I would go for propane. My brother recommends two tanks. Sometimes he is isolated by storms where he lives.

If AC required, heat pumps are great. Problem: the heat function is backed up by electric resistance heating when the days are REAL cold. [Sorry, I don't remember the limiting temperatures.]

Consider investing in new, plastic framed, multipane insulating windows. They made a BIG difference in our houses. It was the first thing we did in the current house. You get an opportunity to make the windows bigger, too.

You know, once you are committed to one kind of heat, the price of fuel doesn't matter anymore. You just gotta pay, unless you are considering moving or switching systems or out of sheer poverty, freeze in the dark.

Cheers,

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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 02:38 PM   #24
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Re: Propane Prices

Hi Gypsy,

We've enjoyed natgas up in NY for 20 yrs. + Last year rates jumped big time. And this year a price cap option may not be offered

Suburban Propane said they will not be offering a cap to their customers. Another thread asked at what point would you change your habits based on hi energy costs. Your comments about windows are right on. Last year was one cold winter! I had a thermostat in one room that would never reach 68. It was on all the time. Broken thermostat? Zonevalve? After way too much detective work I found a very drafty spot at the left edge window sill about 5 feet from the thermostat! Went to HD and searched for transparant painter's plastic sheeting.
I put that up and the room came right up to temperature. It looked pretty shabby but did the trick! I think any energy saving idea or gizmo will have the homeowner's attention this winter.


Suburban Propane also said their propane and heating oil volume was down for the calendar year to date mainly due to customer conservation.


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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 03:08 PM   #25
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Re: Propane Prices

Hey, BUM,

One more reason to get out of New York.

I have lived and worked in New York State. Just about everything north of NYC is really nice, but if you have a choice, there are other places just as nice that are a lot less expensive to live in. It depends on your tolerance for pain, I suppose.

I remember fall on the Hudson and on the St Lawrence Seaway. I loved it. But I didn't move back.

Gypsy

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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 03:37 PM   #26
 
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Re: Propane Prices

Propane price is still $2.13 per gallon here. I got 150 gallons a few weeks ago, and I'm hoping the price will drop before rising for the winter. My full tank of 300 gals should last me a year.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 07:04 PM   #27
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Propane price is still $2.13 per gallon here.* I got 150 gallons a few weeks ago, and I'm hoping the price will drop before rising for the winter.* My full tank of 300 gals should last me a year.
Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?

ha
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 07:07 PM   #28
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by BUM
Today was an unclemick day. Didn't do anything all. Fooled with my putz stocks. SPH finally dipped some....pulled the trigger @ 34.20 we'll see...

heh, heh
Probably not a bad place to do it. I sold a week earlier at 36.60 and rolled the money into EGLE.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 07:14 PM   #29
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Re: Propane Prices

Brewer,

Way to go! When it gets back there I may do the same. Own any NAT?


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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 07:16 PM   #30
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Re: Propane Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?
This site gives you the formulas but no spreadsheet:

http://www.energykinetics.com/heatin...mparisons.html

REW
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 08:35 PM   #31
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Re: Propane Prices

The price from our co-up is 1.30 per gallon for lp for pre-buy and I think summer fill. You have to pay for it in advance and sign a contract.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-07-2005, 09:47 PM   #32
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Re: Propane Prices

Where are you and who is your supplier?

TromboneAl is in Northern CA. It could be that your supply is closer to the source.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 06:56 AM   #33
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by BUM
Brewer,

Way to go! When it gets back there I may do the same. Own any NAT?


Nope. I have ethical concerns that preclude owning any of the oil tanker comapnies, although they look cheap to me.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 08:39 AM   #34
 
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Re: Propane Prices

Quote:
Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?
Here's another fuel cost comparison calculator:

http://www.hearth.com/articles/47_0_1_0_M7.html
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 10:55 AM   #35
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Re: Propane Prices

Brewer, what alternative do you have for tankers to transport petro?* The incidents that have occurred on US ships are human factor incidents and the operators with which I am familiar have addressed them.* Those that were engineering in nature are being addresses by the Coast Guard.

A better investment approach, IMHO, is to consider the business risks and not to hold more than you can aford to lose (just like a bond).* If enviornmental actions are a factor, buy US or, perhaps Norwegian, shipping companies.* If employee relations are a factor I could ask around (I know one US firm I wouldn't choose).

The same issue arises with pipe lines.* Pipe lines have risks, but the alternative is transport on the highway.* Which is the lesser?

Whether or not investment in other industries is likely to be more profitable is a different issue.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 11:35 AM   #36
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by Brat
Brewer, what alternative do you have for tankers to transport petro?* The incidents that have occurred on US ships are human factor incidents and the operators with which I am familiar have addressed them.* Those that were engineering in nature are being addresses by the Coast Guard.

A better investment approach, IMHO, is to consider the business risks and not to hold more than you can aford to lose (just like a bond).* If enviornmental actions are a factor, buy US or, perhaps Norwegian, shipping companies.* If employee relations are a factor I could ask around (I know one US firm I wouldn't choose).

The same issue arises with pipe lines.* Pipe lines have risks, but the alternative is transport on the highway.* Which is the lesser?

Whether or not investment in other industries is likely to be more profitable is a different issue.
Brat, intellectually, I agree with you. However, there is no way I ever want to have anything to do with a major oil spill, no matter how tangentially. It is a gut feeling thing.
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 02:42 PM   #37
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Re: Propane Prices

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However, there is no way I ever want to have anything to do with a major oil spill, no matter how tangentially.
I can relate to that.* However, if you are using petro products you do have something to do with an oil spill, you are creating demand.* We all must move to other energy sources, the risk of spills in only one of the reasons.

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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 04:14 PM   #38
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by Brat
I can relate to that.* However, if you are using petro products you do have something to do with an oil spill, you are creating demand.* We all must move to other energy sources, the risk of spills in only one of the reasons.
Yes, I know. I think about it every time I hop in the car and turn the key. It is also a motivator to switch to a "green power" provider and I am investigating slapping some solar panels on the house (trees may be an issue).

I have definate ethical restrictions on my investing:

- No "environmentally messy" companies
- No tobacco companies
- No companies that prey on the poor (payday lenders, rent-a-centers, etc.)
- No companies that engage in any kind of animal cruelty
- No companies that in general will make me feel like I am compromising ethical standards to make a buck

I actively look for companies that are good for the environment/society and have a good business. I can point to GMCR and (maybe) AF as examples.

There are lots of potential investments out there; why compromise yourself?
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 04:32 PM   #39
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Re: Propane Prices

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Yes, I know.* I think about it every time I hop in the car and turn the key. It is also a motivator to switch to a "green power" provider and I am investigating slapping some solar panels on the house (trees may be an issue).

I have definate ethical restrictions on my investing:

- No "environmentally messy" companies
- No tobacco companies
- No companies that prey on the poor (payday lenders, rent-a-centers, etc.)
- No companies that engage in any kind of animal cruelty
- No companies that in general will make me feel like I am compromising ethical standards to make a buck

I actively look for companies that are good for the environment/society and have a good business.* I can point to GMCR and (maybe) AF as examples.

There are lots of potential investments out there; why compromise yourself?
Profit, ROI, and P/E ratio.............that's what's important. This desire to save the planet.........admirable, but misguided. You can invest in all
the socially responsible companies you want. IT's not a drop in the ocean.
Anyway, I am upset about the degradation of the environment. The
difference is I expect my fellow citzens to continue to despoil and
destroy natural assets, forever. Just look around.

JG
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Re: Propane Prices
Old 08-08-2005, 04:55 PM   #40
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Re: Propane Prices

Brewer, like you whenever I can I invest my money in firms that support my values.* My values include all that you listed.* However, when it comes to oil we must remember that it is a demand driven business and products that use oil or hazardous materials permeate modern society.* The most effective way to make a difference, IMO, is to avoid the bad and support the good as a consumer.*

FYI oil companies know full well that their raw materials are diminishing and are investing research in alternate energy development.* Also, single hulled tankers are being refitted to transport potable water.* If societies around the world can avoid imploding before the new disruptive energy technology is up and running, it will all work out.*
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