Propane Prices

[TromboneAl]

Propane price is still $2.13 per gallon here. I got 150 gallons a few weeks ago, and I'm hoping the price will drop before rising for the winter. My full tank of 300 gals should last me a year.

 

[haha]

Propane price is still $2.13 per gallon here.  I got 150 gallons a few weeks ago, and I'm hoping the price will drop before rising for the winter.  My full tank of 300 gals should last me a year.

Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?

ha

 

[brewer12345]

Today was an unclemick day. Didn't do anything all. Fooled with my putz stocks. SPH finally dipped some....pulled the trigger @ 34.20 we'll see...

heh, heh

Probably not a bad place to do it. I sold a week earlier at 36.60 and rolled the money into EGLE.

 

[BUM]

Brewer,

Way to go! When it gets back there I may do the same. Own any NAT?

 

[REWahoo]

Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?

This site gives you the formulas but no spreadsheet:

http://www.energykinetics.com/heatingfuelcomparisons.html

REW

 

[maddythebeagle]

The price from our co-up is 1.30 per gallon for lp for pre-buy and I think summer fill. You have to pay for it in advance and sign a contract.

 

[Brat]

Where are you and who is your supplier?

TromboneAl is in Northern CA. It could be that your supply is closer to the source.

 

[brewer12345]

Brewer,

Way to go! When it gets back there I may do the same. Own any NAT?

Nope. I have ethical concerns that preclude owning any of the oil tanker comapnies, although they look cheap to me.

 

[TromboneAl]

Anyone know of a calculator or conversion algorithm that will compare electric, natural gas, propane, wood pellets etc. at their respective unit prices to give an idea of how different it is BTU for BTU?

Here's another fuel cost comparison calculator:

http://www.hearth.com/articles/47_0_1_0_M7.html

 

[Brat]

Brewer, what alternative do you have for tankers to transport petro?  The incidents that have occurred on US ships are human factor incidents and the operators with which I am familiar have addressed them.  Those that were engineering in nature are being addresses by the Coast Guard.

A better investment approach, IMHO, is to consider the business risks and not to hold more than you can aford to lose (just like a bond).  If enviornmental actions are a factor, buy US or, perhaps Norwegian, shipping companies.  If employee relations are a factor I could ask around (I know one US firm I wouldn't choose).

The same issue arises with pipe lines.  Pipe lines have risks, but the alternative is transport on the highway.  Which is the lesser?

Whether or not investment in other industries is likely to be more profitable is a different issue.

 

[brewer12345]

Brewer, what alternative do you have for tankers to transport petro?  The incidents that have occurred on US ships are human factor incidents and the operators with which I am familiar have addressed them.  Those that were engineering in nature are being addresses by the Coast Guard.

A better investment approach, IMHO, is to consider the business risks and not to hold more than you can aford to lose (just like a bond).  If enviornmental actions are a factor, buy US or, perhaps Norwegian, shipping companies.  If employee relations are a factor I could ask around (I know one US firm I wouldn't choose).

The same issue arises with pipe lines.  Pipe lines have risks, but the alternative is transport on the highway.  Which is the lesser?

Whether or not investment in other industries is likely to be more profitable is a different issue.

Brat, intellectually, I agree with you. However, there is no way I ever want to have anything to do with a major oil spill, no matter how tangentially. It is a gut feeling thing.

 

[Brat]

However, there is no way I ever want to have anything to do with a major oil spill, no matter how tangentially.

I can relate to that.  However, if you are using petro products you do have something to do with an oil spill, you are creating demand.  We all must move to other energy sources, the risk of spills in only one of the reasons.

 

[brewer12345]

I can relate to that.  However, if you are using petro products you do have something to do with an oil spill, you are creating demand.  We all must move to other energy sources, the risk of spills in only one of the reasons.

Yes, I know. I think about it every time I hop in the car and turn the key. It is also a motivator to switch to a "green power" provider and I am investigating slapping some solar panels on the house (trees may be an issue).

I have definate ethical restrictions on my investing:

- No "environmentally messy" companies
- No tobacco companies
- No companies that prey on the poor (payday lenders, rent-a-centers, etc.)
- No companies that engage in any kind of animal cruelty
- No companies that in general will make me feel like I am compromising ethical standards to make a buck

I actively look for companies that are good for the environment/society and have a good business. I can point to GMCR and (maybe) AF as examples.

There are lots of potential investments out there; why compromise yourself?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Yes, I know.  I think about it every time I hop in the car and turn the key. It is also a motivator to switch to a "green power" provider and I am investigating slapping some solar panels on the house (trees may be an issue).

I have definate ethical restrictions on my investing:

- No "environmentally messy" companies
- No tobacco companies
- No companies that prey on the poor (payday lenders, rent-a-centers, etc.)
- No companies that engage in any kind of animal cruelty
- No companies that in general will make me feel like I am compromising ethical standards to make a buck

I actively look for companies that are good for the environment/society and have a good business.  I can point to GMCR and (maybe) AF as examples.

There are lots of potential investments out there; why compromise yourself?

Profit, ROI, and P/E ratio.............that's what's important. This desire to save the planet.........admirable, but misguided. You can invest in all
the socially responsible companies you want. IT's not a drop in the ocean.
Anyway, I am upset about the degradation of the environment. The
difference is I expect my fellow citzens to continue to despoil and
destroy natural assets, forever. Just look around.

JG

 

[Brat]

Brewer, like you whenever I can I invest my money in firms that support my values.  My values include all that you listed.  However, when it comes to oil we must remember that it is a demand driven business and products that use oil or hazardous materials permeate modern society.  The most effective way to make a difference, IMO, is to avoid the bad and support the good as a consumer. 

FYI oil companies know full well that their raw materials are diminishing and are investing research in alternate energy development.  Also, single hulled tankers are being refitted to transport potable water.  If societies around the world can avoid imploding before the new disruptive energy technology is up and running, it will all work out. 

 

[brewer12345]

Profit, ROI, and P/E ratio.............that's what's important.  This desire to save the planet.........admirable, but misguided.  You can invest in all
the socially responsible companies you want.  IT's not a drop in the ocean.
Anyway, I am upset about the degradation of the environment.  The
difference is I expect my fellow citzens to continue to despoil and
destroy natural assets, forever.  Just look around.

JG

I fully expect that people will still do stupid things, as always.  I still don't really want to be a part of it, to the extent that I can avoid doing so.

 

[brewer12345]

FYI oil companies know full well that their raw materials are diminishing and are investing research in alternate energy development.  Also, single hulled tankers are being refitted to transport potable water.  If societies around the world can avoid imploding before the new disruptive energy technology is up and running, it will all work out. 

I was wondering what the hell they were going to do with all those single hull tankers in 2010. Potable water is a good idea. I bet a lot of them will be heading to California...

 

[Brat]

I bet a lot of them will be heading to California...

In fact, that was a prediction made by the commencement speaker at California Maritime Acad. a few years ago.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I fully expect that people will still do stupid things, as always.  I still don't really want to be a part of it, to the extent that I can avoid doing so.

Well, I really don't want to be a part of it either. Makes me sick the
way people trash nature and natural assets.

JG

 

[brewer12345]

Well, I really don't want to be a part of it either.  Makes me sick the
way people trash nature and natural assets. 

JG

So do something about it, man! Part of the reason profit, ROI, cap rates, etc. matter is because they bring a higher standard of living. If the environment gets so trashed that the quality of life diminishes in pursuit of all that filthy lucre, what's the point?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

So do something about it, man!  Part of the reason profit, ROI, cap rates, etc. matter is because they bring a higher standard of living.  If the environment gets so trashed that the quality of life diminishes in pursuit of all that filthy lucre, what's the point?

I agree. I believe that capitalism, profit, ROI, etc, etc can coexist with
preserving the environment, but only theoretically. I believe so many
people are selfish, clueless, or just plain stupid that this
(environmental degradation) will continue; increase actually.
I am only one person and I am 60 years old. I am not starting any crusades
at this point in my life.

JG

 

[brewer12345]

I agree.  I believe that capitalism, profit, ROI, etc, etc can coexist with
preserving the environment, but only theoretically.  I believe so many
people are selfish, clueless, or just plain stupid that this
(environmental degradation) will continue; increase actually.
I am only one person and I am 60 years old.  I am not starting any crusades
at this point in my life.

JG

This is where the EPA, Kyoto treaty, etc come in and help solve the tragedy of the commons...