Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 05:39 PM   #121
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

nm
__________________

__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 05:46 PM   #122
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,102
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

OAP, I'd really like to learn more about the meds you are taking as you recover from your recent illness. Do you actually have to go inside a pharmacy and use a prescription to purchase them? :

__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 06:20 PM   #123
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,352
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

nm
__________________
OldAgePensioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 06:21 PM   #124
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Some of us are going to get a bill?
Everyone does...let me look you up...ah yes, we're still sending them to your old LA address...please file form 32992A in triplicate to put the address change through...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 06:56 PM   #125
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Rats!

heh heh heh heh
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 08:54 PM   #126
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

I'm sorry, expressions of amused irritation must be routed through our amused irritation department. Please press 5 if you'd like to hear your balance and date of next payment. Press 6 to go and @#$%@# yourself. And thank you for dialing the Early Retirement Forum!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 09:42 PM   #127
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 388
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Oh Horsepuckey. * *The poor, oppressed, white, middle-class, christian majority. * *I weap for them. *

/quote]

This statement once offends me. Twice is more than two times as bad. So why don't people with different view points speak up here? Gee, I wonder.

setab
__________________
I told you I'd taunt you a second time.
setab is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-23-2006, 10:29 PM   #128
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 899
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Yeh,

Quote:
Any conservatives around here that think granting civil rights to all races in the United States was a bad idea?
Minnesotans shouldn't have the vote.* And Californians either.* To many d _ _ _ liberals.* Opps, forgot I'm a California liberal.

Funny, before GWB came along I considered myself to be some where in the middle, voted for selected republicans, liberal on many issues more conservative on others but I've had to adapt to the changing times.

MB
__________________
mb is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 12:10 AM   #129
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 228
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Whoa, I just got in and read this whole thread. As a middle-aged soccer mom from a small conservative town surrounded by God loving decent white people, I just want to say how much I really appreciate diversity. What a dull damn place this world would be if everyone looked and acted just like me and my neighbors. The biggest thing we get up to is the annual 4th of July block barbeque. Yawn.

I have friends who are bi, gay, lesbian and tranny, and I couldn't imagine the world without them. Let 'em get married! These dudes/dudettes know how to party!!
__________________
LRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 12:14 AM   #130
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
This statement once offends me. *Twice is more than two times as bad. *So why don't people with different view points speak up here? *Gee, I wonder. *

setab
I give up . . . why? *Could it be that the intolerant moral majority would rather whine about being persecuted than have to discuss their intolerant position? *They are willing to march in public to force their narrow view on the rest of the world. *But if someone points out that their position is not rational, they act hurt and complain about a lack of tolerance. *What hypocricy. * They try to force their beliefs on everyone and cry "intolerance".

You say you are offended. . . I am offended by these groups every time they choose to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

Speak up if you really have something to say. *But don't expect sympathy by claiming that the religious right is being persecuted. *
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 03:22 AM   #131
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

I was offended by Ashcroft's obligatory staff prayer breakfasts. I'm offended by the American Taliban and their "pro-life" stance that embraces war, torture and the death penalty.

I'm offended that the Pat Robertsons and James Dobsons get a constant hearing, and that they are portrayed as "Christians", while the media goes bonkers over the anti-war rhetoric of Rev. Lowery at Coretta King's funeral. The Bushian "Christians" couldn't care less about Christ's message.

You may remember some of these top ten hits:

"Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone."

"Judge not, that you be judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye"

"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

Indeed.
__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 03:44 AM   #132
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Arrgh.. and I just came across this:

Quote:
“Bob” is a geologist and a teacher at a science education institution that serves several Arkansas public school districts. ... Teachers at his facility are forbidden to use the “e-word” (evolution) with the kids
...
“I am instructed NOT to use hard numbers when telling kids how old rocks are. I am supposed to say that these rocks are VERY VERY OLD ... but I am NOT to say that these rocks are thought to be about 300 million years old.”
...
The explanation that had been given to Bob by his supervisors was that their science facility is in a delicate position and must avoid irritating some religious fundamentalists who may have their fingers on the purse strings of various school districts.
Arkansas Times, 3/23/2006


Then we're going to "wonder" why America is losing its edge in research and techonology.
__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 07:27 AM   #133
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
I am offended by these groups every time they choose to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
I was offended by Ashcroft's obligatory staff prayer breakfasts. I'm offended by the American Taliban and their "pro-life" stance that embraces war, torture and the death penalty.

I'm offended that the Pat Robertsons and James Dobsons get a constant hearing, and that they are portrayed as "Christians", while the media goes bonkers over the anti-war rhetoric of Rev. Lowery at Coretta King's funeral. The Bushian "Christians" couldn't care less about Christ's message.
Oh no!! The poor, oppressed, white, middle-class, liberal majority is unhappy. I weep for them.

Playing devil's advocate here (or god's advocate, depending on which side of the issue you are on : ):

How can one support gay marriage without ultimately relying on their own values and belief system? Where do notions of "justice", "fairness", and "equity" come from, if not from one's own values and beliefs?

In this thread, I have seen a number of heated rebuttals to the "religious right's" position against gay marriages. I have yet to see a valid, cohesive argument in favor of gay marriage that doesn't rely on values and beliefs.

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 07:31 AM   #134
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

I guess there cant be ANY argument on ANYTHING without a value or belief coming into play. Hmmm?

I think the bottom line is that its not anyone elses business what other people do, as long as it isnt directly and measurably affecting them. But thats just a belief based on my values.

As a non-practicing christian of the catholic persuasion (complete with crappy private school for a couple of years!), I cringe when I see the bible thumping...if for no other reason than the fact that a whole bunch of american citizens arent christians. The absolute ignorance of the separation of church and state. Its there for a reason...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 07:38 AM   #135
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
As a non-practicing christian of the catholic persuasion (complete with crappy private school for a couple of years!), I cringe when I see the bible thumping...if for no other reason than the fact that a whole bunch of american citizens arent christians. The absolute ignorance of the separation of church and state. Its there for a reason...
Geez, CFB. You're a lot smarter than everyone says .

I believe that tolerance is neither a conservative or liberal value in the American context. No one owns it.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 07:43 AM   #136
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 699
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
In this thread, I have seen a number of heated rebuttals to the "religious right's" position against gay marriages. I have yet to see a valid, cohesive argument in favor of gay marriage that doesn't rely on values and beliefs.
All right, how about framing it as a negotiation: you don't f#$% with what I want to do, and I won't f#$% with what you want to do. As long as we don't hurt each other -- and the psychic pain of tolerating each other's existence doesn't count as "hurting." Deal?

Generalize the above to a social contract between every member of society and every other.

Another, though similar, formulation: Simple manners. Which, Quentin Crisp once argued, are the true basis for morality anyway.

Bpp
__________________
bpp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 08:28 AM   #137
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
I guess there cant be ANY argument on ANYTHING without a value or belief coming into play. Hmmm?
I agree. That's why I think the argument "The religious right is wrong because support for their position is derived from their values and beliefs" is a fallacious argument.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
I think the bottom line is that its not anyone elses business what other people do, as long as it isnt directly and measurably affecting them. But thats just a belief based on my values.
The point that seems to be overlooked in this thread is that the religious right IS "directly and measurably affected" by the concept of gay marriage. Not in a physical sense, but rather in a spiritual or moral sense. For someone who's core identity is largely based on their faith, gay marriage might be one of the most important issues to them. Imagine someone who is so vehemently opposed to gay marriage that they are filled with animosity at the thought or sight of a gay married couple. Ignoring for the moment the appropriateness of their feelings, it doesn't take much empathy to put yourself in this person's shoes and to understand that their feelings truly are hurt by the notion of gay marriage.

At this point, everyone is probably thinking "yeah, ignoring how much of a homophobic bigot they are, I see their point". This rebuttal challenges the validity of their core belief that homosexuality is immoral. But who gave those accepting of homosexuality the moral high ground in this debate? Who is to be the arbiter of whether "homosexuality is ok" or "homosexuality is bad"? Those who think "homosexuality is ok"?

Think about how strongly you (everyone, not just you CFB) feel that we should be tolerant of gay marriages and accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. Now imagine someone with equally strong convictions but a diametrically opposed viewpoint.

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 08:33 AM   #138
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Hmmmm

The curmudgeon in me - says this a secret nafarious plot by lawyers to create a new growth industry.

Domestic partners - social security rules, tax brackets, pension rights, inheritance rules, divorce, alimony, yada, yada, yada.

Mind boggling!

heh heh heh - first cup o coffee.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 08:36 AM   #139
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
All right, how about framing it as a negotiation: you don't f#$% with what I want to do, and I won't f#$% with what you want to do. As long as we don't hurt each other -- and the psychic pain of tolerating each other's existence doesn't count as "hurting." Deal?
I would accept your bargain, except I am in favor of certain f***ing withs.

A certain minimal level of taxation and certain rules governing conduct in a civilized society would be required. Enforcement of taxation and rules would also have to exist. The problem lies therein: someone will consider this "f***ing with" them.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............
Old 03-24-2006, 08:44 AM   #140
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Geez, CFB. You're a lot smarter than everyone says .
I wouldnt count on that.

Let me help with this.

There are two kinds of people in the world.

#1: People who want to do their own thing as long as it doesnt materially effect other people. They do not appreciate or understand people who want to tell them what they can and cannot do.

#2: People who feel they know what is right and what is wrong, and expect everyone to conform to their conceptions of this. Sometimes they use the excuse of a religion, a book, or a movement...maybe just a majority. Usually they are very persistent on wanting to press this conception onto everyone and have it be accepted by them. They do not understand why everyone doesnt see that their perception of right and wrong is so obviously correct.

If you think about it for a minute, you might find that almost everyone you know falls into one of the two above categories. And the people you know that are #2's (and maybe its YOU!) arent happy with the way I presented it.

I'm a #1, and in matters where I disagree with the law, I follow it. I vehemently resist #2's that want to make laws that create incursions into my private life that have no material effect on others. I dont need to be nannied, and I dont need to be forced to agree with someone elses ideas of how I should act.

In other words, marrying a gay horse while drinking goats blood and rubbing beaver cheese on your belly, done in private, does not materially effect me. So I do not care.

It must be really fun to be a muslim or a wiccan or (whatever) and be led into a courtroom that has the ten commandments posted outside. Big fun.

It must be bigger fun to be in love with someone and want to cement that relationship in faith and in the eyes of the law and be unable to do that because someone else doesnt like the idea of it.

The really funny part is, conservatives used to be all about exactly this. Keep government small, out of peoples everyday lives, build roads and schools, defend the country, support the law and protect the constitution, keep our frickin noses out of where it doesnt absolutely need to be, pinch pennies, reduce taxes and support big business, no unnecessary handouts to those unwilling to work, everyone get in the boat and start paddling.

Now its gun nuts, anti-abortion nuts, anti drug nuts and anti-gay nuts invading other sovereign nations, spending like drunken sailors, devastating our civil rights, blowing past the constitution, and slapping silly the very foundation of this country: people seeking to escape religious prosecution.

Dude...where's my political party?
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making marriage last Martha Other topics 105 07-22-2006 07:52 AM
Film: "America, From Freedom to Fascism" johnlw Other topics 0 06-25-2006 07:11 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.