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Old 07-30-2014, 09:30 AM   #81
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We recently bought a new Acura RDX without the tech package (NAV, power tailgate, HID headlights, and upgraded stereo). It didn't seem worth the extra cost for features that were not important to us and thought that if something breaks it will be expensive.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:38 AM   #82
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[...]it came with a backup camera. I never look at the screen, I'd rather turn around and look.
I do both. First I look in the mirrors, then I turn around and look, then I check the camera, then I turn around again and back up. I suppose the backup camera could conceivably show me something I couldn't otherwise detect. I do stretches at the gym which improve my flexibility so that I can turn all the way around like that very easily.

Hopefully other drivers do not rely exclusively on the backup camera, because I don't think it shows the driver nearly as much as turning around and looking directly. If they do rely on it too much, then it is more of a danger than a safety feature IMO.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:50 AM   #83
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We recently bought a new Acura RDX without the tech package (NAV, power tailgate, HID headlights, and upgraded stereo). It didn't seem worth the extra cost for features that were not important to us and thought that if something breaks it will be expensive.
I agree. But when we opted for the nav upgrade for about $1500, I never dreamed it would cost $4400 to replace when it went out...too soon old, too late smart.

I guess we should be thankful (but we're not) we got 7 years out of it. I read about another owner on a Toyota forum who had his nav system die after he'd owned the Camry Hybrid for 40 months and 33K miles (out of warranty on months...)

We're not willing to settle for a clone unit or a blank insert, so we're in the midst of deciding between the various independent nav system rebuilders at about $500 to $1250. YMMV
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:57 AM   #84
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I agree. But when we opted for the nav upgrade for about $1500, I never dreamed it would cost $4400 to replace when it went out...too soon old, too late smart.

I guess we should be thankful (but we're not) we got 7 years out of it. I read about another owner on a Toyota forum who had his nav system die after he'd owned the Camry Hybrid for 40 months and 33K miles (out of warranty on months...)
I think you're being too hard on yourself. The large in-dash screen is much more compelling than the small screen of a portable device, and advances in GPS technology do not make older devices obsolete.

The lesson here for me is not to bypass the built-in option, it's to make sure that there are marketplace alternatives for the option I choose in case replacement or repair is needed.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:57 AM   #85
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I agree. But when we opted for the nav upgrade for about $1500, I never dreamed it would cost $4400 to replace when it went out...too soon old, too late smart.

I guess we should be thankful (but we're not) we got 7 years out of it. I read about another owner on a Toyota forum who had his nav system die after he'd owned the Camry Hybrid for 40 months and 33K miles (out of warranty on months...)

We're not willing to settle for a clone unit or a blank insert, so we're in the midst of deciding between the various independent nav system rebuilders at about $500 to $1250. YMMV
I think your dealer is seeing how much you're willing to pay.

They tend to have a sliding price scale.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:18 AM   #86
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I think your dealer is seeing how much you're willing to pay.

They tend to have a sliding price scale.
There are undoubtedly exceptions, but if you research online, you'll find the prices I've quoted have been very consistent from Toyota dealers all over the US. Many Toyota owners have been through this, and evidently rebuilding OEM nav systems (not just Toyota) has become a growing niche business.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:19 AM   #87
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I bought a Garmin (with advice from here). It works great and I was able to drop it in a backpack when using a rental car (they wanted $11 a day for one of their GPS units!).
A number of years ago I wanted to go on a driving tour of Ireland. GPS units had been out awhile but I had never had one. Maps worked fine. I got concerned when I started hearing stories about people getting ost in Ireland. Rental cars wanted the equivalent of $15/day. I bought a new Garmin and a European map card and still came out ahead.

I've gotten so I don't think I could live without one now.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:48 AM   #88
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Hopefully other drivers do not rely exclusively on the backup camera, because I don't think it shows the driver nearly as much as turning around and looking directly.
Much of the time, you're right. And for many of us, the camera is probably completely unnecessary.

But for parking in tight places, especially where you have to back in to the slot, it is an absolute godsend.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:53 AM   #89
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I just totaled my 2005, 150K mile sports sedan. The perfect car for me: a radio and crude trip computer. That's it. Not even an automatic transmission. Driving it was like...well...driving. I know I am definitely not the norm.

Looked at new cars. Everything has screens, cameras, 100 trip computer options, variable dash colors, drive by wire, on and on. Ended up with the minimum I could and still get something that remotely resembled something with a main purpose of spirited driving. I'm all for progress, but in 10 years these will seem like 70's shag carpets.

I'll take roll up windows and a manual clutch any day...

Yup, and get off my lawn too!
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:07 PM   #90
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Since no one else stepped up, Gladys is from this (so bad it's good) TV series...

And we have a winner!!
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:11 PM   #91
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I just totaled my 2005, 150K mile sports sedan. The perfect car for me: a radio and crude trip computer. That's it. Not even an automatic transmission. Driving it was like...well...driving. I know I am definitely not the norm.

Looked at new cars. Everything has screens, cameras, 100 trip computer options, variable dash colors, drive by wire, on and on. Ended up with the minimum I could and still get something that remotely resembled something with a main purpose of spirited driving. I'm all for progress, but in 10 years these will seem like 70's shag carpets.

I'll take roll up windows and a manual clutch any day...

Yup, and get off my lawn too!
You forgot the manual choke.

I know many Toyotas of the 70's had them. Borrowed my friend's car and couldn't start it. He asked if I choked it? I'm like: "What is this thing, a lawn mower?"
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:22 PM   #92
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Much of the time, you're right. And for many of us, the camera is probably completely unnecessary.

But for parking in tight places, especially where you have to back in to the slot, it is an absolute godsend.
Yes I agree, I don't have a great range of motion despite exercise. I'm one that backs into parking places whenever it's feasible. Why, it's safer to back into a mostly non-moving area than to back out into passing traffic. It gives me an extra level of confidence I haven't missed something. You still have to look and use mirrors properly.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:03 PM   #93
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You forgot the manual choke.

I know many Toyotas of the 70's had them. Borrowed my friend's car and couldn't start it. He asked if I choked it? I'm like: "What is this thing, a lawn mower?"
Ah, yes. Had one of these in an old 60's Mustang I owned a few years ago. I tried to explain to my nephew how it worked and he looked at me like I was completely insane.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:10 PM   #94
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Last car I had with a manual choke was a 1972 Triumph TR6.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:14 PM   #95
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Was watching a guy get ready to crank his XKE. One hand was pulling the choke, the other had crossed fingers, hoping the three SU carbs and Lucas would cooperate and the engine will start.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:25 PM   #96
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I do both. First I look in the mirrors, then I turn around and look, then I check the camera, then I turn around again and back up. I suppose the backup camera could conceivably show me something I couldn't otherwise detect. I do stretches at the gym which improve my flexibility so that I can turn all the way around like that very easily.

Hopefully other drivers do not rely exclusively on the backup camera, because I don't think it shows the driver nearly as much as turning around and looking directly. If they do rely on it too much, then it is more of a danger than a safety feature IMO.

I was in a Caddy the other day and was looking at the guys back up camera.. it showed a good amount back there... he said that if something was coming from the side an arrow would appear on the screen showing which direction... SO, seems to be even better than turning around and looking... I (and you also) have blind spots due to the C pillar... you cannot always see everything...
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:31 PM   #97
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I was in a Caddy the other day and was looking at the guys back up camera.. it showed a good amount back there... he said that if something was coming from the side an arrow would appear on the screen showing which direction... SO, seems to be even better than turning around and looking... I (and you also) have blind spots due to the C pillar... you cannot always see everything...
I can say I was skeptical about the backup camera but when I got my DWs hand me down Infiniti, well, I'm a believer now. When I'm parked with trucks on either side of me, the ONLY way to see traffic going down the aisle is WITH the camera. Before, it's just luck that no one hits me as I back out.

Also, the field of view is much wider than what I can see by turning around.

Sent from my mobile device so please excuse grammatical errors.
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Old 07-31-2014, 05:41 AM   #98
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The backup camera is the best safety enhancement for motor vehicles since the safety belt. Beside how it helps keep little human beings who wander behind a vehicle backing-up safe, it also greatly reduces the risks to the vehicle associated backing into/out of anything. I'm an excellent back-upper and always have been. But the reality is that we drivers sit in the front row of the vehicle. Behind us is another row of seating, and a trunk, and that and the bars that hold up the roof the car will block some of the vision of anyone other than Clark Kent. The back-up camera has no blind spot in its field of vision. It makes you the Superman of backing up.
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Old 07-31-2014, 05:58 AM   #99
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We got a aftermarket in-dash NAV system for our Buick, it was still pricey (about $1K). If it ever craps out, I'll put the factory radio back in and call it a day. The nav is handy but I agree with the observation that a smartphone can do it as well. I like having it but would not pay that again to replace it (and chances are when it does die, there won't be any compatible replacements still available anyway).

Tired of having everything turned into computers when the benefit is tiny and is tied to enormous repair costs and shorter lifespans. My friend has a Maytag high end washer - 2 years old - and the electronic control panel died. The panel can't be fixed, only replaced - $500.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:27 AM   #100
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I am going to speak in favor of the OEM in dash navigation systems that I've had. Yes, I'm sure they can break after the car is out of warranty, but so can everything else. I've personally never had it happy in the cars where I've had in dash navigation.

I currently have it in my Ford Explorer. Periodically (at no charge) I get sent data cards with updated maps. The maps are not out of date and it works fine. I like the large screen and enjoy it being in the dash where it doesn't impede vision at all.

I don't want to use my smartphone while driving as my GPS. I don't want to have to find a mount for it and mount it. DH used his smartphone once in a car where we didn't have navigation and found that downloading maps used a lot of data and battery (GPS doesn't use data but downloading maps does).

If you don't use a map for the smartphone then I think it can be very distracting and dangerous to use.

In our Prius I decided not to give in dash navigation and bought a Garmin GPS and stuck it to the windshield. It was a very nice GPS unit. But, it was constantly falling off the windshield which is to say the least distracting while driving. Eventually I gave the Prius to my son and he finally junked the GPS since it wouldn't stay on the windshield. And he didn't like having something on the windshield.

You can get dashboard mounts which I think are preferable to windshield mount but not everyone wants something on the dashboard.

Edit: On the backup camera -- I totally agree with bUU. We are about to buy a vehicle for my daughter and I won't consider one that doesn't have a backup camera.

W2R you see way more with the backup camera than you do without it. I have backup cameras on several cars and it gives me a much greater field of vision.
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