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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-13-2005, 02:06 PM   #21
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain_Mike
We have two kids.* One went to all public school, and the other went to a private school for several years.* Both have done well.* *The bottom line is, I think that kids who have parents who care about them, and who have a modicum of intelligence will thrive no matter what schooling system they are in.
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That's the key. *No teacher, with a class of xx many kids, is going to know the strengths and weaknesses of yours as well as you. *
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 05:25 AM   #22
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by Nords
If you're implying that homeschooling deprives kids of socialization, you're wrong but you're not alone. Many people have picked up that impression from media & politics.

Our neighborhood has enough homeschoolers for not one but two activity groups. They have a 20-kid minimum for "field trips" (the local bakery, the museums, whatever) and they're always oversubscribed. They also have their own sports teams, although they're not quite big enough for their own "homeschool league".

Our local tae kwon do dojang has not one but two homeschooler classes. (The owners homeschool their three kids but "smothering" or "micro-managing" are not words that come to mind with these black belts.) That's over 40 kids, and sometimes there's more socializing than TKD happening.

If you have a kid who's sick of school, who's pretending all sorts of illnesses or injuries to avoid attending, who's always the one being picked on or exploited... then homeschooling might be just the thing for them. There's a significant minority of kids in every high school who would be better off in some alternative setting, and homeschool is just one of the choices. I'm sure the school's administrators would agree with a few specific cases as well. Parents may be making the choices but sometimes the kids know what's best too.

When our kid complains about school I reassure her that she doesn't have to go back. About 30 seconds later, just as her despair is turning to disbelieving euphoria, I tell her that "Dad's Homeschool" is always ready to leap to the rescue. It takes about 30 more seconds for her to decide that public school isn't so bad after all.
Hey, no homeschool bashing here. I say:
Know the child
Know the schooling options
Try to make the right choice as a parent.

The barb is directed at those who just can't let their kids go to school. I know parents that compulsively manage every aspect of their kid's lives :P
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 06:16 AM   #23
 
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

You attended the Air Force Academy?

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Originally Posted by Martha
Every school has a culture and sometimes that culture is toxic to a specific student. I certainly did not thrive in my school where the culture was ridgedly conservative fundamentalist Christian.*
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 12:11 PM   #24
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

We have both of our kids in Catholic School.* Below are some of the issues that we initially considered* and continue to evaluate between public and Catholic.

CATHOLIC SCHOOL

The pros:

Better student teacher ratio

Smaller student population, they know who our kids are

The curriculum is proven and it works

Fewer distractions and temptations. Yes, there are still some issues , but at not quite the magnitude of the public school.

Uniforms

The Cons:

As someone else mentioned, the other parents. Many of them are either rich or act like they are rich. We have had to have some discussions with our kids about what "poor" really means and explain to them that we aren't poor.

Sometimes parents will bring their kid to the Catholic School as a "last ditch" type of effort to straighten the kid out. This almost always causes problems with the existing kids.* However, we have to remember that the kid has usually just come out of public school, so it's unclear about whether or not this is really a negative when comparing Catholic to Public school.

We have to drive our kids to and from school. No school bus.


PUBLIC SCHOOL

Pros:

It would not cost us any additional money

Perhaps not as much of the "How much money do you have?" attitude

Cons:

Our local school system loves to jump on the latest fads in education. The curriculum changes quite frequently and the teachers have to play catch up to become acquainted to the new buzzwords and concepts. My personal favorite is "Inventive Spelling".* They also have to attend workshops during the school day to learn the new curriculum. When that happens, a substitute teacher takes over the class.

The teachers are burdened with a large amount of paperwork, which detracts from their time spent teaching.

Sometimes your kid is just a number

They wear whatever they want to wear with few restrictions. My favorite is the Goth girl that used to wear a necklace that ostensibly held a vial of her boyfriend's blood.

An inordinate amount of time spent coaching the kids so they can pass the state mandated competency test.

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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 01:31 PM   #25
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by johnlw
CATHOLIC SCHOOL

The Cons:

As someone else mentioned, the other parents. Many of them are either rich or act like they are rich. We have had to have some discussions with our kids about what "poor" really means and explain to them that we aren't poor.
We will be putting our kkids in the local Catholic school. The above will definately be a problem because the school is located in a more affluent nearby town (million dollar homes are not uncommon). But I have to wonder: isn't this always a problem? Our society is pretty consumption-obsessed, and status plays a big role no matter where you live or where your kids go to school.
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 02:43 PM   #26
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by johnlw
My favorite is the Goth girl that used to wear a necklace that ostensibly held a vial of her boyfriend's blood.
Phew, that brings a whole new level of commitment to the phrase "putting out"...
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 10:18 PM   #27
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by Mountain_Mike
I know several families who home school their kids in order to protect them from the big bad world.* I find it very inconsistent that when these same kids get into "high school," their parents have no qualms whatsoever about sending them to the local Community College to take classes such as chemistry, French, and calculus.* If their primary motivation was to shield their babies, they're blowing it---there is alot more "junk" available at the college than the high schools.
I disagree with this. Both my kids were home-schooled. In fact, John Holt was a friend of mine, and I worked hard to get a reasonable home school law in this state. Many home schooled kids call it a day about age 16, and go on to college. Mine did. They are more than ready, many of them are already earning money at skilled work, and they want to get out into the world.

All the worst elements in high school drop away long before college. And community colleges are especially good IMO for younger kids, because most everyone is motivated. I went to an expensive private college, and a lot of people were there for 4 years of partying.

OTOH, when I took my son to Bellevue CC for orientation, I was very happy to see all the Asian parents with their sons and daughters. People there were looking to succeed. And the faculty seemed quite respectful of the serious purpose brought by the students.

A side note on schools- recently a flap has arisen in this state because we now have a statewide test- I think for seniors- if you donít pass, you donít graduate. Parents and teacher groups are bringing pressure top dumb down the test, so the uneducated students can still get out and go on to their next resting place.

Our governor, Christine Gregoire, said today (more of less) ďOur students are not in school to learn to compete with the kids form Idaho, or Montana, or Oregon or California. They need to compete with students from Ireland, and India, and China.Ē At least I think that is what she said- I was driving, and my reception was not great.

Welcome to the real world, American students and parents.

Ha




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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 10:36 PM   #28
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by BUM

The barb is directed at those who just can't let their kids go to school. I know parents that compulsively manage every aspect of their kid's lives :P* *
Gee, I miss a lot while I'm at work.

So, by this statement, are you saying that this doesn't happen in public/private schools?* I have to disagree.* I know many unschoolers/homeschoolers and many public and private school families.* It would seem to me that the compulsive micromanagement can happen anywhere.* I know people who have every moment of their child's time programmed from preschool on.* Gymboree, play group, music lessons, cheer, gymnastics, soccer, karate, art, on and on and on.* We chose to homeschool, in part, to give our kids time to be kids and to get to know themselves without others telling them what to do and when to do it.* Kids are raised with decisons for* every moment of their waking hours made for them.* How can we then expect them to make intelligent choices when someone else has always chosen for them?* They need to be able to make desicions and fail or succeed, ON THEIR OWN.* I would much rather they fail at the little things in life (bad clothes choice, spending their money on things that go out of style next week or break after an hour, stupid hair, not learning algebra) than on the bigger things (drugs, career, mate).* I think kids who are tightly controlled get angry and make stupid choices, no matter if they are homeschooled or go to the best private schools.

Our experience has been that our kids, now 16 and 12 (13 next week) have needed much less direct attention from us as they have gotten older, in part I believe, because they have had a lot of access to us.* They haven't had to demand attention in a negative way.* Have "bad parenting moments" happened?* Sure, but not at the rate that I hear about from other parents at work.* *Also, they are very comfortable around adults, and guess what?* They will be adults for a lot longer than they will be children.

I don't usually discuss this alot* because we read and talked and thought alot about our decision to homeschool and many people don't think much about the education of their children.* They do what is convenient, what is considered the norm, what is expected.* I think this crowd is a bit different.

My experience in public school was that I spent 12 years trying to be the person I thought "they" wanted me to be and then had to spend the next 8-12 years figuring out who I was. *I wanted to give my kids the opportunity to figure that out much earlier.

I know several families who home school their kids in order to protect them from the big bad world. *I find it very inconsistent that when these same kids get into "high school," their parents have no qualms whatsoever about sending them to the local Community College to take classes such as chemistry, French, and calculus. *If their primary motivation was to shield their babies, they're blowing it---there is alot more "junk" available at the college than the high schools.

I don't know a lot of Christian Fundie homeschoolers, and maybe that's whom you're referring to, but in our case, our impetus is to give them a firm foundation before they are placed in a situation with large numbers of people for extended periods every day who might be making bad choices. *And a lot of those bad choices are made out of anger (having no control), boredom (tedium of schoolwork), need for attention of any kind. *But remember, I'm not the official spokesperson of homeschooling.

I think the movie Office Space is a great analogy for school.

Judy
Thanks, Nords for the apology..but I've been on this board long enough not to take it personally!
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-14-2005, 10:41 PM   #29
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by HaHa
. In fact, John Holt was a friend of mine, and I worked hard to get a reasonable home school law in this state.
You knew John Holt?? How, totally cool!! 8)

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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-15-2005, 09:08 AM   #30
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

We considered private school when my son was finishing kindergarten. Problem we found was most were very religious. One particular school proudly told us that they wanted to produce god fearing young men and women. DW and I sat down and I said, 'Do we really want Mark (our son) "fearing" god? Is that good?' We researched the schools and the public schools were on par with the private. I have my issues with the public schools as well, especially in terms of excessive insistence on political correctness. In the end, we decided that raising a child was more than just the school, it was the whole environment. You know, the "it takes a village mentality". Except we believe first it takes good parenting, then good schooling, then a good village. Responsibilities for the childs outcome fall in that order. So we moved to a college town with great public schools that is also a great place to raise a family. But we still review our son's school books, reading assignments and homework to make sure he is on the right path. In the end, every parent has to make their own decisions about how to raise their kids. We believe that doing everything we can to raise a good person is one of the most important jobs we have. It even ranks above FIRE.
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-15-2005, 09:32 AM   #31
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn
I have my issues with the public schools as well, especially in terms of excessive insistence on political correctness... So we moved to a college town with great public schools that is also a great place to raise a family...
The fact that the school system is in a college town probably makes the k-12 schools more politically correct.
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-15-2005, 09:47 AM   #32
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by justin
The fact that the school system is in a college town probably makes the k-12 schools more politically correct.*
Good point. Got to take the good with the not so good I guess. Fortunately this is historically one of the more conservative public universities. That means that when someone like VP Cheney comes here to address student and faculty, he doesn't get food thrown at him.
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-15-2005, 10:10 AM   #33
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn
Good point. Got to take the good with the not so good I guess. Fortunately this is historically one of the more conservative public universities. That means that when someone like VP Cheney comes here to address student and faculty, he doesn't get food thrown at him.
"conservative public university" - I thought that was an oxymoron

I spent three years living in Chapel Hill while going to Univ of NC. I think it is fair to describe it as the polar opposite of a "conservative public university" (maybe the east coast version of UC Berkeley). The public school system was extremely PC, based on what I saw from newspapers, friends that experienced it first hand and knowing a few teachers in the system.

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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?
Old 12-15-2005, 10:23 AM   #34
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Re: Public, private, homeschool, or no school?

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Originally Posted by justin
"conservative public university" - I thought that was an oxymoron

I spent three years living in Chapel Hill while going to Univ of NC.* I think it is fair to describe it as the polar opposite of a "conservative public university" (maybe the east coast version of UC Berkeley).* The public school system was extremely PC, based on what I saw from newspapers, friends that experienced it first hand and knowing a few teachers in the system.*

'one of the more conservative public universities' - to me this means that it doesn't lean so far to the left that it is flatlining.
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