Question??.........."Will They Get To Heaven?"

[Mr._johngalt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff I am with you on that Gumby and respect Christians who actually take the time to read the New Testament and think for themselves about what it teaches. What I would describe as "mainstream" Christian teachings are very positive and open to a personal understanding of "truth." I keep reading about increasing numbers of fundamentalist "Christians" who seem to be stuck in the old testament and leave no room for a personal understanding but seek to force feed a delivered version of truth that would damn that child in Borneo. Although, I have to admit, I give their thinking short shrift so it doesn't have much impact on whether I choose to believe in God or not.

Politics and religion (or, in my case, guns)................. very touchy subjects.

I have read the entire New Testament and found it interesting. Tried to
read the Old Testament but think I bogged down around "Numbers".

JG

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff I am with you on that Gumby and respect Christians who actually take the time to read the New Testament and think for themselves about what it teaches.

I prefer the surfer's abridged version... the Book of Duderonomy.

[benny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper This is aimed mostly at you religious folks. Will the "kiddie diddler" Foley make it to the pearly gates? How about the "hindgrinder" Haggard? And let's not forget that all time "blubbering sinner" Swaggart?

Foley, Haggard, Swaggart, etc., etc., These people are nonentities so who cares?

Now had you asked that very same question of George Bush, that in my view would be relevant.

That of course presupposes that one believes in Heaven in the first place.

[mickeyd]

Quote:

And now Haggard admits "getting massages" from the man-whore and buying meth.

True enough, but he now says that he threw away the meth after he bought it because it occurred to him that it was wrong.

" I did not have have homo-sex-manual-manipulation with that man..."

"I did not come close to inhaling..."

I expect that these time honored quotes will soon be attributed to the Reverend Haggard.

[BOBOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheryl If it turns out there is a God and a heaven, but He is so petty as to send me to hell for not repenting and believing and all that, then it's probably not much of a heaven that I'd want to go to anyway.

"Heaven for climate, Hell for society".

-M. Twain

[youbet]

Going back to OP and his original question.........

Zipper, why do you ask? Why do you give a sh*t? Were you just laying on the rug in front of the hearth when something woke you and you needed to know this? What?

[benny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet Going back to OP and his original question......... Zipper, why do you ask? Why do you give a sh*t? Were you just laying on the rug in front of the hearth when something woke you and you needed to know this? What?

There are those who consider that religion, any religion, is a disease. Others are fervent believers and are convinced there is a heaven as there is a hell. Problem is that no one has been to either place and come back to tell us. So a thread such as this may be intellectually stimulating but can not, by definition, be conclusive. Of course it would be the ultimate irony if Zipper ever ended up in heaven. But, if so, that we will never know either.

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'max' . . . Problem is that no one has been to either place and come back to tell us. . .

Maybe not, but I did work for Satan for about 5 years. :P

[bosco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr._johngalt I believe these folks are usually referred to as "pitchers" and "catchers". Let's keep our sports metaphors operative. BTW, this must be the dumbest topic I've seen since I signed on. JG

how about "tight ends" and "wide receivers"?

I agree with your assessment of the topic.

[PsyopRanger]

This is my continued question…

Atheists want the right not to believe, which in my Christian opinion is fine.

However, where is the mutual respect for those that choose to believe?

These threads poke fun at believers and right wing figures which makes me further lose respect for the atheists I am offering my respect to because of their lack of mutual respect for the other side’s beliefs.

I believe only God can judge a person’s deeds and if you ask for true, honest forgiveness of your wrongdoings, you will be forgiven. I was also forced fed a lot of Christian and Catholic BS for years but I continued searching until I found a section of Christianity that I agreed with. I don’t agree with a lot of the dogma and traditional crap but I do believe in living at a higher moral standard and doing things for the greater good rather than living simply for myself.

While I am a Christian, I also respect the rights of those who do not believe and I am not out trying to convert people, I believe a person has to accept faith of their own free will, NOT be “talked/coerced” into it with the tactics of guilt, fear and submission for fear of “eternal damnation”

It seems many here have seen the ultra-conservative side of Christianity and that is what your view of the whole religion is?

Maybe I am wrong, but why can we not respect each others differences and beliefs instead of constantly challenging and debating these areas?

Don’t the liberals preach tolerance?? That goes both ways.

My 2 cents.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsyopRanger This is my continued question… Atheists want the right not to believe, which in my Christian opinion is fine. However, where is the mutual respect for those that choose to believe? These threads poke fun at believers and right wing figures which makes me further lose respect for the atheists I am offering my respect to because of their lack of mutual respect for the other side’s beliefs.

Psyop:

I don't like to denigrate people because of their religious beliefs and didn't participate in any of the more "humorous" aspects of this thread (although a lot of my lack of comfort had more to do with the borderline anti-gay aspects than anti-Christian). But if you look at the various threads where "atheists" have "attacked" Christians you will see that it is always fundamentalists that are attacked - not mainstream Christians. The "attacks" are really self defense. The religious right regularly attacks "godless atheists" and "secular humanists." Even non-fundamentalist right wingers regularly attack liberals for their religious beliefs. Have you ever listened to the vicious attacks Catholic Bill O'Rightly makes on secular humanists? If I had to espouse a religion it would be "secular humanism" so I consider those attacks to be directed toward my beliefs. And the religious right forcefully attempts to impose its social agenda on those of us who don't agree. It is refreshing to see the most vocal of these dangerous zealots exposed as hypocrites.

[brewer12345]

What donheff said. Pllus:

I have news for you, POR. Its not just the non-religious who make fun of walking anuses like Haggard, Dobson, etc., it is also those of us who are religious but who find the radical agenda of the nutballs repulsive.

[azanon]

Believe it or not, there was a time I would write something that sounded just like Gumby's (since i used to be a christain). I'm well versed in both the OT and NT; even have 6 college semeter hours in it. The Bible is a cleaverly written book and i'm not surprised its the #1 overall best seller, because it has an explanation for everything (albeit severely lacking in many cases).

There's some nice feel good versus in there even if you're not a believer though, and I think its an important book to study and be aware of whether you're a believer or not. I don't know if it is a mistaken to recommend a book so powerful as to have created 2 billion followers, but I guess some things are worth the risk.

[laurence]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What donheff said. Pllus: I have news for you, POR. Its not just the non-religious who make fun of walking anuses like Haggard, Dobson, etc., it is also those of us who are religious but who find the radical agenda of the nutballs repulsive.

Amen to that! From another guy who goes to church weekly and finds all the Swaggart/Haggart/Dobson crowd creepy and evil.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What donheff said. Pllus: I have news for you, POR. Its not just the non-religious who make fun of walking anuses like Haggard, Dobson, etc., it is also those of us who are religious but who find the radical agenda of the nutballs repulsive.

And it's even broader than the Haggard, Dobson, etc., crowd. Look at the wierd antics of the bead-clickers headquartered in Rome. Thank goodness those folks are letting their leadership know they aren't going to tolerate the crap anymore!

[astromeria]

It's my husband's fundamentalist sister who shuns us, not us atheists shunning her. We extend the olive branch often. She (her whole family, even the kids about my daughter's age) declined to attend my daughter's wedding.

When politicians need to claim atheism/secular humanism in order to get elected, I'll start worrying about discrimination against Christians. When humanists as well as Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists stop being figures of fear or fun in American popular culture, I'll start thinking about discrimination against Christians. In fact, when fundamentalist Christians stop berating the more liberal Christian sects, I'll start taking their issues seriously. It would help if they's start by behaving in a "Chistian manner" toward the lepers (ostracized) of our society: people with AIDS, gay people, poor people. What would Jesus do, eh?!

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff aspects than anti-Christian). But if you look at the various threads where "atheists" have "attacked" Christians you will see that it is always fundamentalists that are attacked - not mainstream Christians.

I don't think "always" is correct Don. There were numerous mean-spiritied criticisms of folks who believe in an afterlife, whether that belief stemmed from a fundamentalist or more progressive point of view.

[azanon]

So true astromeria.... good (accurate) post.

[HFWR]

nm...

[Mr._johngalt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by astromeria What would Jesus do, eh?!

What indeed? Look, in our family we have a bit of everything. Catholics,
Protestants (including hard core conservatives)
atheists, agnostics, and several of degrees of all these;
plus some stuff you maybe never heard of. I am happy for all who
believe whatever they want and if it provides a lifestyle and a comfort
level, so much the better. Unless their views negatively impact me,
I have no problem. Of course, in the real world there is always that danger.

JG