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Quicken moving to subscription model
Old 02-07-2017, 10:04 AM   #1
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Quicken moving to subscription model

Link below is article from PC World magazine:
Quicken shifts to software subscription model, but there's a big catch | PCWorld

Subscription model already started in Canada and will be coming to US soon. As a long time Quicken user, I'm not happy about this. Now I'll have to pay yearly for many things I don't want or need (sounds like my cable service). Also, if you don't pay the subscription, you can't enter any new transactions, even manual transactions. Essentially your database is frozen in time.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:50 AM   #2
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While I can see making downloads a subscription, there is no real value to a subscription for the basic budgeting and tracking features. Their yearly updates have provided nearly no value to what I originally had years ago. It's pretty much a static problem. Certainly anyone who doesn't require downloaded transactions would find it cheaper to use a buy-it-once program.

Another good opportunity to look at what else is available.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:53 AM   #3
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They will lose me as a user, then. I've been annoyed, but semi-tolerant, of the forced 3 year upgrade. But I *abhor* subscription models for software...

Can they do more than "sunset" the existing programs? In other words - I own a version (2016 home and business) and it is set up to sunset (stop allowing one step updates) 3 years after I purchased. But I would still be able to download quicken files from my bank/brokerage/cc company and import it into quicken. Are they going to disallow that when the sunset happens? That would be CHANGING the functionality as it now exists on a product I purchased.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:55 AM   #4
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I'll be limping along with Quicken 2007 as long as I can. I have the latest update. It seems to run on my new MacBook with El Capitan just fine.

I'll just have to be careful about updates.

In general, I would be happy to pay for a (not too pricey) subscription model IF the current version had all the capability of the 2007 Mac version. But they never did create something that would replaced it. I hope they still rue the day they dropped development for Mac.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:00 AM   #5
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I've defected away from Quicken many years ago. For me, I really don't need anything more than a very simple budgeting program without any bells and whistles, like the way Quicken was at the beginning.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:00 AM   #6
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While I can see making downloads a subscription, there is no real value to a subscription for the basic budgeting and tracking features. Their yearly updates have provided nearly no value to what I originally had years ago. It's pretty much a static problem. Certainly anyone who doesn't require downloaded transactions would find it cheaper to use a buy-it-once program.

Another good opportunity to look at what else is available.
It is likely the first step towards a cloud-based, client-server model. I use YNAB and they went to this last year.

Contrary to your value argument for the PC application, a cloud-based model has a MAJOR impact on cost reductions on their end.

Not necessarily a proponent, but its the way everything is moving, like it or not.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:12 AM   #7
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They will lose me as a user, then.
Perhaps the same here. I'm still using the 2010 software, I assume that will be unaffected. With much reluctance I went with Adobe's subscription model of Lightroom and Photoshop ($10/month) but use them a lot. If Quicken goes that way then I'll stay with the 2010 version for as long as it works, then find something else.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #8
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From the article:

The restriction is no different than what other subscription services place on customers. Users who stop paying for Office 365, for instance, can no longer create new or edit existing documents.

But the idea that they could not continue to track finances by manually entering transactions fueled push-back from Quicken customers.
"If the subscription isn't renewed, manual access and updates to the data need to be allowed, otherwise the company will be perceived to be holding the customer's data hostage," argued Dan Glynhampton in a message posted to a Quicken support forum.

"Quicken is supposed to help me manage my finances, not prevent me from managing my finances," added mshiggins on the same thread.
When a Quicken representative intervened on the forum to say that the only real difference between a subscription and the older licensed software is "that manual transactions can't be added" when the former expires, users were quick to respond.

"If at the point the subscription ends my data essentially becomes frozen in time then that makes the program absolutely useless to me," asserted Perculiar_Investor.
Is it just me, but doesn't the shake down subscription model of pay up or your data frozen in time sound a bit like ransomware?
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:51 AM   #9
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We won't use anything cloud based that has our financial data on someone else's server (other than our financial institutions, that is.)

I've managed to stay away from Adobe's subscription model. Fortunately I got all the software I wanted in time. But I had not problem upgrading to Lightroom 6 and still keeping the non-subscription model. There may have been a magic place to navigate to on some adobe.com screen that I found out about on various chat rooms.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by easysurfer View Post
Is it just me, but doesn't the shake down subscription model of pay up or no data sound a bit like ransomware?
Well, pay up or you can't enter any new transactions sounds like ransomware.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:54 AM   #11
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Well, pay up or you can't enter any new transactions sounds like ransomware.
I updated my original post to make it more accurate like what you mentioned.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:57 AM   #12
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Like Rodi mentioned, it seems like that would require modification of the existing software that you already purchased.

So beware any "updates".
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:02 PM   #13
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We won't use anything cloud based that has our financial data on someone else's server (other than our financial institutions, that is.)

I've managed to stay away from Adobe's subscription model. Fortunately I got all the software I wanted in time. But I had not problem upgrading to Lightroom 6 and still keeping the non-subscription model. There may have been a magic place to navigate to on some adobe.com screen that I found out about on various chat rooms.
They don't really "have" your data if it is encrypted and the only salted and hashed key is in your possession.

Here are YNAB's policies:

Quote:
Your YNAB account password is one-way salted and hashed using multiple iterations of a key derivation function for passwords. (Those sound like made up words, but these are best practices!) Even if someone were to steal the YNAB database of passwords, they would not know your password and would be forced to (very slowly!) guess every possible password in order to find it.

We prevent brute force attacks where a password is guessed multiple times in a row. We also help you choose stronger passwords by 1) requiring that passwords be eight characters or longer, and 2) specifically preventing you from using the top 2,085 most commonly used passwords. (It’s quite an interesting list, should you choose to Google it.)

Your data is encrypted at rest when stored on our servers. That means that even IF someone could break in and steal the hard drives where your data is stored, they couldn’t read it. Also, should you (sadly) choose to delete your YNAB account, all of your budget data is completely and irreversibly removed from the YNAB database. We do not simply mark your account as inactive. We completely destroy all account data. (To be clear, you explicitly request this nuclear deletion. If you happen to let your account lapse accidentally, we don’t assume you mean DESTROY ALL MY DATA. That’d be a horrible assumption.)
It's another "sleep at night" issue that will come with time and sheer numbers of participants....
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:03 PM   #14
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They will lose me as a user, then. I've been annoyed, but semi-tolerant, of the forced 3 year upgrade. But I *abhor* subscription models for software...
I agree completely - - I will NOT get subscription software and if I was a Quicken customer, that would be the end of it for me.

I just feel SO lucky that I never liked Quicken. Actually I bought it a few years ago, because so many here like it and this is a pretty smart group. But for me, it wasn't a good solution. I didn't like it at all. I prefer the flexibility and capability for customization that I have with Excel. I just input data manually since for me, that only takes about 10 seconds or so I guess. Different strokes and all that.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:04 PM   #15
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Is it just me, but doesn't the shake down subscription model of pay up or your data frozen in time sound a bit like ransomware?
It does if the file is of a proprietary nature i.e., only that software can read it. In Lightroom the files are not proprietary but in Photoshop the .psd files (I think) are. But you can still read/edit them if not too advanced in the cheaper Photoshop Elements software, which is not subscription.

And of course in Lightroom or Photoshop you can export anything to one of several open-source files such as .jpg.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:17 PM   #16
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I moved away from Quicken last year, no regrets. I switched to iBank (now Banktivity). I do not recommend it either. I inexplicably lost 4 months of data with this software. So I am back to using spreadsheets. I miss Quicken's powerful reporting feature, but we simplified our finances a lot since DW retired so it is no big loss.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:30 PM   #17
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Perhaps the same here. I'm still using the 2010 software, I assume that will be unaffected. With much reluctance I went with Adobe's subscription model of Lightroom and Photoshop ($10/month) but use them a lot. If Quicken goes that way then I'll stay with the 2010 version for as long as it works, then find something else.
Same here - I use SOME tools a lot but A LOT of the tools I don;t use at all. As someone pointed out, it's like the TimeWarner Deluxe package...

I'll be moving to something else as soon as I can't function without the Q subscription
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:41 PM   #18
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I'll wait until 2019 when my Quicken 2016 online functions end to see how this all plays out. I don't see this subscription model as described being successful for Quicken.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:44 PM   #19
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They don't really "have" your data if it is encrypted and the only salted and hashed key is in your possession.


It's another "sleep at night" issue that will come with time and sheer numbers of participants....
You have to take their word for it, and that they have good IT security policies in place, and that employees don't easily get phished or go rogue.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:47 PM   #20
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I used Quicken a long time ago, then switched to a spreadsheet, then back to Quicken2015. I still use part of my old spreadsheet because I can't get Quicken to produce reports the way I want. I plan on using my current Quicken as long as it works. I have no intention of moving to a subscription model. Quicken as it is now isn't good enough to justify the subscription cost.
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