Rationalization

[steelyman]

Sailing comes to mind.

 

[Texas Proud]

Sailing comes to mind.

Exactly what I was thinking.....

Probably a regatta.... I know when my BIL was alive he did a few from Houston to Corpus.... he would not win, but enjoyed the cruise.... he always suspected that some people used their engine which was supposed to be limited...

If it is sailing, I would ignore the rule.... I think that whoever is interpreting it is not doing it justice....

 

[growerVon]

I wonder if the old-guard rule setters would still turn a blind eye if they knew that on the local laptops there was an app doing the same thing as the uncondoned "outside" website does.

OP, I'd discuss it with my team and get their input. If the group all felt indignant by this issue, I'd support pulling out and finding a more balanced arena while honing our skills. I'd also recount Gumby's awesome sub analogy and if they were all in, I'd stay with them and fight for change from within - including using the spendy custom s/w (though its nauseating to think of wasting $$ on something you arguably shouldn't have to - but that never happens, right?).

Some additional thoughts: try contacting the s/w company to see if they'll offer discounts or scholarships for low-funded clubs; maybe post info on how lesser funded teams can setup a Kickstarter campaign to pay for their licenses, then contact the local news to help "raise awareness." "Coming up at eleven, see how one local club is helping their opponents raise funds."

 

[sailor]

Another thought - could you contact $1200 s/w company and ask if they would be willing to rent the software for $79 for the time of the event?
They might get some good PR out of it.

 

[FUEGO]

Sailing comes to mind.

+1

 

[frayne]

My bottom line, cheating is cheating and it is wrong.

 

[MichaelB]

If spending $79 improves the accuracy of weather predictions this much, why does our local weather still get it wrong so frequently? They can't give us a reliable next day forecast for outdoor concerts.

Midpack, does this weather thing ruin the whole event for you? If you're not taking advantage of it for your benefit why not just push it out of your mind and enjoy the day and the rest of the competition?

 

[ERD50]

It's hard to make any useful comments without specifics, but let me relate the following anecdotes for whatever they might be worth.

1. Many, many years ago, I was a Navy submariner. My first submarine was essentially a target. We would periodically conduct joint exercises with surface ships and aircraft, during which we would be told to cruise at a certain depth, course and speed. The ships and planes would attempt to find us. We always cheated by not staying within those parameters.

In our view, the Soviets weren't going to play by any rules, so why should we? ...

Hope this isn't too off topic, but what you did sounds dangerous/wasteful to me.

Sure, in a real situation with the enemy, you aren't going to play by those rules (just Geneva Convention, etc). But I would assume these simulations were set up to learn from. When they set up the boundaries for your ship, their later analysis would be based on that information (can the surface ships or planes detect your sub in this area?), and you broke the rules, maybe making their analysis worthless?

I'd say wasteful, because maybe nothing was gained from the exercise. I'd say maybe dangerous, because now the surface ships and planes don't know their actual capabilities, and that might be important in a real life situation.

Or was this just for bragging rights, with no post-mortem analysis? I'd hope not, sure seems like useful information could be gleaned from an exercise like this.

-ERD50

 

[W2R]

Yes it would be easy to not compete, but it's not a local bowling league. It's an historically significant event, run annually for well over a hundred years, with hundreds of teams, thousands of competitors from all over the country/world.

So.... why does the fact that it is a Big Deal mean you have to compete? Does it define who you are, or do you define who you are, instead? Personally, I'd just plan something else for that day. Do you like travel? Maybe a trip to visit relatives (or Rome? Paris? Macchu Pichu? Key West?) on that day is in order.

I am astounded that anyone, particularly a retired person, would be so [-]hell bent on[/-] determined to continue participating in this "historically significant event" under the circumstances. I sure wouldn't, no matter how many years it has been going on. What's significant about it, IMO, is that the fun in it has been ruined for all by a bunch of jerks. Time to move on!

 

[sengsational]

Sailing comes to mind.

Before scrolling down and seeing this, I thought of hot air ballooning. I figured it had to be wrong because there probably aren't "hundreds of teams, thousands of competitors." I just checked, and the BFA Competition Rules don't have "outside", "application", "weather" or "technology" in the context of the OP. Two old sports that depend on wind, one with a stick up their rule book on technology. I like aviators.

 

[Midpack]

Some people sure are devoting a lot of energy to figuring out what the event is, without commenting on the situation at all, sorta misses the point entirely. But OK, I'll admit it, it's FIFA.

Sorry for the vent...moving on.

 

[pb4uski]

Perhaps some civil disobedience is in order. Use the online software, you won't get caught and you can later brag about it but then deny, deny, deny and they can't prove a thing but it might prod the powers that be to make a change.

Or perhaps you could collude with a number of other teams and share the use of a copy of the $1,200 software. If you could get 12 teams together, it would be $100 a team or even less if used over multiple years (say 6 teams share it for two years, or 4 teams for 3 years, or whatever).

 

[Midpack]

Perhaps some civil disobedience is in order. Use the online software, you want get caught and you can later brag about it but then deny, deny, deny and they can't prove a thing but it might prod the powers that be to make a change.

Or perhaps you could collude with a number of other teams and share the use of a copy of the $1,200 software. If you could get 12 teams together, it would be $100 a price or even less if used over multiple years (say 6 teams share it for two years, or 4 teams for 3 years, or whatever).

Hot air ballooning is a pretty obscure sport, so the software is pretty specialized, hence the high price. It comes with 2 licenses, like most software companies these days, it really can't be copied - and I wouldn't copy protected software anyway.

A case can be made for civil disobedience, but in a competition I just can't live with it. The good old boys will right it eventually when they get the cover to do so (and not before) without admitting anything, but it will most likely take years and more patience than I can muster...

 

[growing_older]

The "cheat" would be a weather forecast? I would personally feel no qualms about getting as much outside assistance as needed to get a decent forecast. Does anyone believe that any team is using entirely their own resources to establish weather stations, develop appropriate meteorological models, and disseminating the results ONLY for their own use. That's absurd. The rules need to be updated to reflect modern technology, but meanwhile taking steps to have a decent weather forecast available seems like it should be an acceptable action.

 

[rodi]

Weather seems like a safety issue. And should be allowed.

That said - I'd try to get the rule changed... But I fall into the "rule follower" mindset... where I look for exploits in the rules, but try to stay within the rules.... and feel guilty if I break them. But that's my own issue.

 

[Willers]

I believe I know what event this is (I'm a fan) so I understand the importance of the technology that Midpack mentions. The reality is that these are very competitive and teams will exploit whatever loopholes exist to gain an edge. That means the letter, not the spirit, of the rules...

Since this is a case of technology being way ahead of the governing rules, it comes down to the willingness of the rule makers to adjust to that technology. In cases where they are open to that I've gone by the letter of the law. In cases where they have their heads in the sand I've seen it as ethical to level the playing field according to what was intended when the rules were written.

Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage. That isn't the case here since there has already been an attempt to correct the error and it was rebuffed.

Just my opinion of course...

 

[imoldernu]

Maybe I'm misreading this entirely, but as a follower of the America's cup, I watch the advances in technology with the news: rules, boat sizes, sails, foils etc., and though technically dumb, can see the effect of nuances on opinions in the racing community. (see the discussions below the article)
Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests - Telegraph

and maybe way off the mark, but significant to the subject of sailing, this site is one that could be valuable :

Weather - YBW

If it has no relevance, nothing lost... it was an interesting search.
Forward looking doppler LIDAR?

 

[Ronstar]

Sounds like maybe the Chicago - Mackinac race is about to a deflate gate of its own

 

[eytonxav]

Midpack, I am not sure what it is, but didn't you raise this question some time ago on the forum or at least a similar question to this?

 

[Midpack]

Midpack, I am not sure what it is, but didn't you raise this question some time ago on the forum or at least a similar question to this?

Nope, care to show us? Not sure what your point would be anyway...

 

[easysurfer]

Kinda reminds me of the episode of "The Andy Griffith Show" with Bill Bixby.

"The Andy Griffith Show" Bailey's Bad Boy (TV Episode 1962) - IMDb

 

[Gumby]

Hope this isn't too off topic, but what you did sounds dangerous/wasteful to me.

Sure, in a real situation with the enemy, you aren't going to play by those rules (just Geneva Convention, etc). But I would assume these simulations were set up to learn from. When they set up the boundaries for your ship, their later analysis would be based on that information (can the surface ships or planes detect your sub in this area?), and you broke the rules, maybe making their analysis worthless?

I'd say wasteful, because maybe nothing was gained from the exercise. I'd say maybe dangerous, because now the surface ships and planes don't know their actual capabilities, and that might be important in a real life situation.

Or was this just for bragging rights, with no post-mortem analysis? I'd hope not, sure seems like useful information could be gleaned from an exercise like this.

-ERD50

You are entirely too predictable.

 

[ChainsBeGone]

I was educated at an institution that inculcated an honor code into us that stated we would not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those who do. Anyone who violated any part of that code was separated, regardless of how long one was there. I had a classmate separated for cheating on his final exam, as a senior, one week prior to graduation. I realize that this is extreme for most, but choosing the harder right over the easier wrong is how I have strived to serve throughout my career, whether it applied to my professional or my private life.

28+ years later, life experiences have shown me that reality is not so black and white, and there are many shades of gray (not talking about the Hollywood kind!), and some events caused me to remain silent as opposed to "not tolerating," but, right and wrong is fairly easy to determine; what is hard, is choosing right, when wrong would be so much easier. I'm not judging others' choices, only observing that we all have to choose what allows us to look in the mirror and still be able to sleep comfortably at night.

 

[Katsmeow]

Given the information given I would either:

1. Go ahead and have the team spend the $1200 to buy the software if this was something that I really enjoyed doing and felt that over time the $1200 would be worth it to be able to take part.

2. If the $1200 wasn't worth it to me, then I would feel that rules were very unfair and would simply not take part in the competition.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Sounds like maybe the Chicago - Mackinac race is about to a deflate gate of its own

Yeah that's likely. My boss at the chandlery used to run in that race and would tell all sorts of stories about the ways to get a leg up on the competition. It is a big deal up that way.